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Second Amendment Group Argues For Guns In University Dorms
July 15, 2015
The Second Amendment should supersede a Florida law that bans firearms from state university housing, a gun-rights group argued before seemingly skeptical appellate judges Tuesday.
The 1st District Court of Appeal in Tallahassee heard arguments from Florida Carry Inc., which contends students and other people residing in on-campus housing at the University of Florida should be allowed to maintain possession of firearms as they would at their parents’ homes.
“All we are saying is that the right to possess a firearm in one’s home is fundamental,” said Florida Carry attorney Lesley McKinney after the hearing. “Regardless of where one’s home is, it’s still their home.”
The judges offered no timeline on when they might rule.
The University of Florida has disputed that the federal or state constitutions guarantee the right to have firearms in university housing.
University spokeswoman Janine Sikes maintained after the hearing that the school is in compliance with state law regarding on-campus firearm possession, which includes a December 2013 ruling from the same court that the University of North Florida cannot bar firearms stowed in cars.
Attorney Barry Richard, representing the university, argued to the judges that students have an option to reside off-campus if they are adamant about firearm possession.
“If you want to be in an environment, or you want your child to be in an environment, in which you have the security and peace-of-mind of knowing there are no guns permitted, then you place them in university housing,” Richard told the judges. “If you feel strongly that you want your child or an adult student feels they want a weapon, they can live in non-university housing. I know of no provision at the University of Florida, or any other school, any longer, that requires a student to live on campus.”
An Alachua County circuit judge sided with the Gainesville school last year.
Judge Scott Makar, one of the three judges on the appeals panel, told Florida Carry attorney Eric Friday the case would be helped with a named plaintiff who could describe the personal impacts of the ban.
Makar also told Friday that lawmakers, through state laws, have given the state university system’s Board of Governors the power to develop guidelines for university boards of trustees related to university-owned and university-controlled grounds, including restrictions on firearms.
“I recognize that neither side cited this statute in their briefs, but it seems to give pretty clear regulatory authority down to the universities,” Makar said.
Friday said that part of state statutes could be interpreted to regulate matters such as how weapons are transported across campus to a firearm course or how they are stored in a classroom.
“That chapter is about the educational environment, and the educational environment we submit is very distinct and separate from the home environment,” Friday argued.
Friday added that while Florida Carry represents “multiple” students, the organization retains members’ right to privacy.
The arguments came after gun-rights advocates unsuccessfully sought to pass legislation this year that would have allowed people with concealed-weapons licenses to carry firearms on university campuses. The National Rifle Association has vowed to bring back the measure in 2016.
In a brief filed in March, the university pointed to other places that it said lawmakers have designated as “firearms-free zones,” including courthouses, polling places and bars.
Friday said Florida Carry is moving forward with its legal argument because the issue isn’t carrying guns on campus, as state lawmakers have proposed, but possession within a person’s home as allowed by the U.S. Constitution.
“You can’t force somebody to waive a constitutional right in order to gain the benefit of attending a public university,” Friday said after the hearing. “If that’s true, then the universities could require students to waive their Fourth Amendment rights and have their rooms subject to search at any time.”
McKinney added that they are pursuing the change through the courts because “we’ve seen a lot lately that the courts aren’t necessarily trending towards waiting for the legislative or democratic process to enforce a fundamental right.”
Comments
12 Responses to “Second Amendment Group Argues For Guns In University Dorms”
Words have meaning.
Madison probably didn’t consider the contradiction or else he didn’t consider universities part of government.
Schools weren’t considered part of government with 14th Amendment extention into much later.
(Like I said, I’m not considering the wisdom, just the fundamental law.)
David for honesty
If only the author of the Second Amendment could simply have told us how it should apply to campus life…if only…
“5. No student shall, within the precincts of the University, introduce, keep or use weapons or arms of any kind, or gun-powder; nor keep a servant, horse or dog.”
– JAMES MADISON, Rector
December, 1826
Enactments by the Rector [President] and Visitors [Regents] of The University of Virginia, For Constituting, Governing And Conducting That Institution. Chapter VI. Police.
But surely Madison was just a rogue — a radical — who wanted to leave those students unarmed and defenseless, to satisfy his liberal lust for all-powerful government…surely…
“No Student shall, within the precincts of the University, introduce, keep or use any \spirituous/ or vinous liquors, keep or use weapons or arms of any kind, or gunpowder, keep a servant, horse or dog, appear in school with a stick, or any weapon, nor, while in school, be covered [disguised, hooded] without permission of the Professor, nor use tobacco by smoking or chewing, on pain of any of the minor punishments at the discretion of the Faculty, or of the board of Censors, approved by the Faculty.”
– Th: Jefferson Rector.
October 5th 1824.
“At a meeting of the Visitors of the University, at the University [of Virginia] on Monday 4th of October 1824. at which were present Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Breckenridge, John H. Cocke, George Loyall and Joseph C. Cabell…”
REGARDING;
“How on earth did I ever live this long without ever touching a gun? I’ll have to ask a member of the well-regulated militia next time I see one.”
You depended on others to protect you.
Membership in the state militia is not required by the Second Amendment, it simply states the States need them but that the right to bear arms can not be infringed.
The expressed protection was for the individual state, not for the united states.
The prohibition is also interesting in that it doesn’t forbid just Congress from infringing, but any infringement. That would include the State, County, City.
(And even if it hadn’t, the 14th Amendment would have.)
This is not to say that everyone should run around armed to the teeth, just that legally, any infringement is illegal.
AND
“I guess I will say this once more.. Why are we the only Western Country in the world allowing this madness to continue!”
Because we are the only stupid or crazy ones? as you imply.
Or because we have seen people enslaved by tyrannical governments and slaughtered by the million because they couldn’t defend themselves. It’s going on today in countries all over the world where only the criminals are armed, sometimes those criminals are even the people’s own governments, or they are that government’s subjects.
Most importantly, it continues to go on because people such as yourself have not convinced a majority of citizens to amend the constitution to take away that right and disarm those who obey the laws.
David for sane, law-abiding people
and the means to stop those who aren’t
@ Bob B
Having a gun is sort of like having a fire extinguisher. You might need one at any given time. I’ve got at least a couple of each, and I know where they are and how to use them.
@Bob B
God forbid you don’t find yourself in a situation tomorrow where just the sight of a gun could save your life or your family’s. Have you seen the video of the traffic altercation at the beach a couple of days ago? Things can happen real fast , and get real ugly way before a policeman can show up. I’m glad to know you’ve never needed one, there are many that did need one and aren’t here today.
Sigh. It’s impossible to talk sense to the people with gun fetishes. They love their guns. They NEED their guns. They can’t be away from their guns.
How on earth did I ever live this long without ever touching a gun? I’ll have to ask a member of the well-regulated militia next time I see one.
I guess I will say this once more.. Why are we the only Western Country in the world allowing this madness to continue! Next it will be Weapons in Nursing homes, Guns for Daycare Workers. Please tell me when enough is enough, When every business and organization and Person in this country carries hand guns. It would just be nice if for once we could actually look at other Democracies and just maybe actually learn something new. We already lead the world in School shootings, Please tell me mass shootings are More common in the United Kingdom, Germany, Australia, Canada or any nation where guns are strictly enforced, And used for actually hunting.
Myself and my roommates up in Pennsylvania in the early 80s kept our black powder rifles in our dorm rooms… Never had a problem… of course that was in the days when we also had shooting teams in High School…
It is not just young people that go to college. Guns do not kill people, it is mentally disturbed people that do. They do not need a gun either. They can use knives, poison, hammers, screwdrivers, cars, or anything else you can think of. If responsible gun owners were able to conceal carry on campus, then maybe they could stop an incident when the police are not there and save many more lives. They should at least be able to protect themselves. That is the purpose of having a concealed carry permit.
I am not sure young people have the good sense to know when to use a gun and when not to. I am sure some do but there are others who might think of them as entertainment. If someone in a dorm should have a gun it needs to be an adult with a lot of common sense.
@Concerned
Right. Because some kid who wanted to shoot other kids at school couldn’t get hold of a gun unless their legally allowed to have em in the dorm. Kind of how insane lawmakers think tougher gun laws is somehow going to curtail violence by making it harder to obtain firearms. It does do the latter however, it only makes it harder on legal responsible gun owners who aren’t the ones doing the shootings anyway. Similar to how the military has tightened security because of shootings so convicted felons cannot work on base when it’s they’re own dang people doing the shootings. Fools just want to do fool things because they feel they have to do “something” .
Right. Because we don’t have enough school shootings yet. So let’s have some more.