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Lawyer Says Nativity Was Illegal; Century Declares Nativity Scene Surplus
December 6, 2012
The Town of Century has declared their nativity scene as surplus property and will sell it to the highest bidder, months after an attorney for a Wisconsin group that represents agnostics and atheists sent letters to the town claiming that a nativity display on public property is illegal.
A nativity scene had been displayed in front of the Century Town Hall for several years. It was displayed for a just a few days during the 2011 Christmas season, but was removed because it was basically falling apart due to age.
In a July 17, 2012, NorthEscambia.com story about the Century Town Council’s wish to purchase new Christmas decorations, Century Town Council President Ann Brooks was quoted as saying “I believe we all want a manger scene”. Three days later, as a result of that story, Andrew Seidel, a staff attorney for the Freedom from Religion Foundation, fired off a letter and fax to Brooks objecting to a nativity scene on public property.
“We can assure you that not all Century residents want a manger scene,” Seidel wrote. “A local resident brought this news story to our attention in hopes that we would halt an imminent First Amendment violation.”
Seidel claimed that a display consisting solely of a nativity scene, “depicting the mythical birth of the Christian god [sic]“, endorses a single religion and is thus illegal according to the Supreme Court.
“There are ample private and church grounds were religious displays may be freely placed,” Seidel wrote. “Once the council enters into the religion business, conferring endorsement and preference for one religion over others, it strikes a blow at religious liberty, forcing taxpayers of all faiths and of no religion to support a particular expression of worship.”
Following their July meeting, the Century Council moved forward in purchasing wreaths to adorn utility poles along Highway 29, but a nativity scene was never purchased. The town also, for some number of months, did not respond to the Freedom from Religion Foundation’s letters and faxes.
Matt Dannheisser, the town’s attorney, advised the town that they could allow private entities to erect holiday displays the town hall in exercise of their First Amendment freedom of speech rights. Alternatively, Dannheisser said the town should include “traditional holiday symbols” such a Menorah and Christmas tree with a “secular message” such as “Peace of Earth, Goodwill Towards Men”.
A town official said selling the nativity scene as surplus property to the highest bidder really was not a response to the Freedom from Religion Foundation’s assertions, but was due solely to the aging condition of the manger scene set making it unsuitable for public display.
Pictured: Some of the Town of Century’s Christmas decorations on display at the Nadine McCaw Park on Highway 29. The aging decorations were donated by Pensacola several years ago. NorthEscambia.com photos, click to enlarge.
Comments
121 Responses to “Lawyer Says Nativity Was Illegal; Century Declares Nativity Scene Surplus”
I am sickened and appalled at a group NOT from here made US not be able to follow tradition and decorate according to MAJORITY decision.
Where is common sense??? Where is the FIGHT to keep our traditions? Where is the FIGHT to defend our desire to celebrate CHRISTmas, a CHRISTIAN holiday, as we traditionally have for hundreds of years??? Where is the FREEDOM to practice our religion on public property where Christians are forced to pay taxes too? Where is the fight that comes from being offended at all kind of crap that our tax payer money pays for that Mr Seidel does not object to??
I hope that nativity scenes COVER Century. Shout out with action. I will have one in my yard this year and for years to come.
Wow look at all the comments about our lord jesus,yes there IS somthing about that name !!!! The fact is,we (all gods children)Are meer messengers for the lord not forcing it upon you.for those who have ears let them here !!! There is a savior who lives ,and he wants you to know that he loves you and he wants to give you a free gift of Eternal life ,yes a choice that only you yourself will make !!! Give your heart to jesus,he will never let you down.He died and then 3 days later arose back to life again.No other god has ever done that,they are still dead.Make that decision today and get that eternal life!!!l
NOTE:
Any opinions I give are solely mine, nobody else is to blame for my attitudes, beliefs or conclusions,
nor do they necessarily share even one of them.
David for not smearing others
Notwithstanding the1796 Treaty with Tripoli including the provision :
” Article 1. There is a firm and perpetual peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary, made by the free consent of both parties, and guarantied by the most potent Dey and Regency of Algiers.”
“And no pretense of any periodical tribute of further payments is ever to be made by either party.”
and
“for this treaty of perpetual peace and friendship”,
it is noteworthy that a short time later we sent in the Marines to the shores of Tripoli because they kept demanding tribute for the privilege of using the Mediterranean Sea.
This leads us to conclude somebody lied when they signed the treaty, either the USA’s Seantors, the President and the diplomat or the leader of Tripoli. — or both.
David contemplating the weight of words of politicians
I have some words for those don’t believe – and who say the idea of Christmas is based upon a myth: Jesus, the mere mention of His name can calm the storm, heal the broken, raise the dead. At the name of Jesus, I’ve seen sin-hardened men melted, derelicts transformed, the lights of hope put back into the eyes of a hopeless child…
At the name of Jesus, hatred and bitterness turned to love and forgiveness, arguments cease.
I’ve heard 0f a mother who softly breathed His name at the bedside of a child delirious with fever, and I’ve watched that little body grow quiet and the fevered brow cool.
One sat beside a dying saint, her body racked with pain, who in those final fleeting seconds summoned her last ounce of ebbing strength to whisper earth’s sweetest name–Jesus, Jesus…
Emperors have tried to destroy it; philosophies have tried to stamp it out. Tyrants have tried to wash it from the face of the earth with the very blood of those who claimed it. Yet still it stands.
And there shall be that final day when every voice that has ever uttered a sound–every voice of Adam’s race shall raise in one great mighty chorus to proclaim the name of Jesus–for in that day “every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord!!!”
Ah–so you see–it was not mere chance that caused the angel one night long ago to say to a virgin maiden, “His name shall be called Jesus.” Jesus–Jesus–Jesus. You know, there is something about that name…
(From “There’s Something About That Name” by the Gaithers)
IN ANSWER TO:
“My Question is Could This Be Posted On Town Property?
- – -
“Or would the words “Nature’s God” make it illegal?”
Just because you asked: It would not be illegal unless it was trying to use public money and power to convert someone to a religion or favoring one religion over another. Since it would be posted as a historical document, it would be legal.
David for rejoicing
Article XI of the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Article 6, Section 3 of the United States Constitution:
“no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”
Amen NikNak50. It’ seems like old times. Again.
“Matt Dannheisser, the town’s attorney, advised the town that they could allow private entities to erect holiday displays the town hall in exercise of their First Amendment freedom of speech rights.”
Why don’t someone take the attorneys advice? Go buy or build it and place in in front of city Hall..
We know where all the non believers are going to BURN at!!!
I see absolutely nothing wrong with having a new manger scene……I say we put up one anyway………or every house in the tri county area put one in their yard!!!!!! Some folks are just plain Scrooge or grinches but even they had a change of heart!!!!!!!
Using the logic of those who want all references to Religion And God Removed From the public Square My Question is Could This Be Posted On Town Property?
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
Or would the words “Nature’s God” make it illegal?
The Constitution also gives true believers the right to debate the validity of laws and judicial rulings in public forums such as this. If no one questioned judicial rulings, we would still have slavery.
The Constitution also gives true believers a right to have a voice in how their tax dollars are spent.
REGARDING:
“I pray that God gets rid of this Wisconsin group.”
If the good Lord chooses to not destroy the Wisconsin group for opposition to use of public money to display graven images, I pray you can forgive Him His forbearance.
Please understand you are free to buy the surplus material and display it on your own property or that of any of the other indignant people who believe it should be on display.
David for freedom of expression
and a loving Lord
The Constitution gives JUDGES the power do decide these cases,
not True Believers.
“With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people–a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence.”
John Jay
Founding Father and First Chief Justice
Federalist No. 2
From Miriam Webster’s Dictionary:
Providence – capitalized : God conceived as the power sustaining and guiding human destiny.
Pray tell what was that “same religion”? Islam, Buddhism, Wiccan?
Our founding fathers, like us, had varying opinions and degrees of religious faith. But to deny the christian influence in our founding is a delusional disregard for the history of Western Civilization.
To those who are saying that everyone should put up a nativity in their front yard etc….YES!!!! That is exactly what you should do. Put up a tree, a manger, a statue of the blessed mother…put up anything you like…on your front yard, with your money. There is not an atheist alive that would ever argue against your being able to do so. Go for it. Put up all the lights and religious decorations you might want.
When you get taxpayer money, there should be an attempt to utilize those funds in a way that is inclusive of everyone. Having inclusive displays will in no way harm Christmas or hurt a single person…and will force nobody to pay for religious displays.
All I see are pics of a lighthouse, a ginger-bread looking house, and a “Jolly Trolley”. Now, to stir people up, put up some quotes from Jesus like, “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.”
@dw “why is everybody trying to take Christ out of Christmas? The removeal of Christ is the first step in destroying a Christian nation and superimposing their idea over what our Founding Fathers Established. These beings despise our Christ and curse that his name be erased. The ACLU removed our Lord’s Prayer, our Pledge of Allegiance ect. Don’t expect any help from political leaders on the federal level are these beings control our financial and communication/media systems and networks. Those politicians want their money and endorsment. They are bought.
My suggestion is to know your enemy. Educate yourself as to who they are and what their agenda is. A WORD OF CAUTION. I have found myself wishing for the arrival of the Day of the Lord,,, CAUTION: “Woe to you who long for the day of the Lord! to what end is it to you? The Day of the Lord is one of darkness not light”. AMOS 5:18… The day of the Lord is just that, the Lord’s and not our day of vengeance against these beings as VENGEANCE is the Lord’s domain… “For that day belongs to the Lord God of host, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge himself of his adversaries”. Jeremiah 46:10…”I will repay, saith the Lord; vengeance belongs to God and he only; it is proper and peculiar to him”. Romans 12:19. Let us pray for victory and remember that this end game will not play on forever. Satan will be the defeated in the end. “Oh Lord God who avenges, Oh God who avenges shine forth”. Psalm 94:1, is what I feel we should pray for.
Prior to Israel going into captivity, they had driven God not only out of their private lives, but also from the public square. Any questions?
Its ashamed that this lawyer is from Wisconsin cause he will not be used to the heat where he is headed… Oh well.
To that lawyer up north: I hope you get a bag o switches from Santa.
One writer here stated that separation of church and state is not in the Constitution.I therefore refer you to Article 1 of the United States Constitution.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,or abridging the freedom of speech,or of the press,or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances”.
Now most Christians don’t believe in the Constitution.They think that the United States was founded as a Christian nation.If true than why is there no mention of god or Jesus Christ in the Constitution?The fact is the United States is a secular country where many people here believe in many religions as well as those of us who don’t believe in myths and fables.If anyone here has an understanding of the Christmas holiday you would know it was originally a Pagan holiday stolen by the Christians.
I believe in the separation of the religion industry and the State.If Christians want to celebrate Christmas,originally a Pagan holiday,they should erect crosses,creches and whatever other symbols they believe in on private,not public land(s).
Wow, this has hit a nerve I see. Well, folks the truth is this. Christ has been nowhere near Christmas ever. As a matter of fact Christmas makes Christ sick. You are not worshiping Christ you are worshiping a holiday. The “spirit” of Christmas? What is that, Let the “without knowledge” believers take a wooden recreation of a pagan idol. Go ahead. You can’t take my KING JAMES BIBLE. Or my belief of a King that died on a cross for your sins. I mean come on, Christmas comes from the word “Christ’s mass”, in 1038 AD. Christ was actually born around May or June. Depending on which calender you follow. People wake up. There are souls dieing and going to Hell everyday and we worry about some wood and nails in front of a courthouse. True Christians spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It was a holiday invented by the Romans. Jeez…One ignorant “without knowledge” agnostic, or atheist complains about something that does not bother me at ALL. My Christ lives in my heart, not in a fake manager in front of a City Hall. Have you reduced Christ down to a fake manager in front of a City Hall in Century, Florida. Not me. The Book of Matthew Chapter 1:23 explains a lot. He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Not some fake baby in a manager. HE’S GOD. Thank you for your support.
Why is some Cheesehead lawyer coming down into Florida anyways? Don’t you have enough to do up in Wisconsin?
The same way that these people feel that we are pushing one religion on them we feel like our religious beliefs are being pushed aside and we are not able to excersie our religious right because it might hurt someones feelings so my question is why cant we all believe what we choose to believe?I dont have to answer for what anyone else believes and no one has has to answer for my beliefs.
If we become so intolerant as to completely separate church and state then we will have to also remove the Christmas holiday from the list of holidays many people get off from work since it IS a Christian holiday. (Also, Christmas Eve, Good Friday and Easter), So if you’re an atheist or practice another religion, please feel free not to take those days off from work, don’t exchange Christmas gifts or hunt Easter eggs with your kids. I think at some point it just gets ridiculous. I am a Christian and I don’t mind seeing Hanukkah, Kwanza, etc. decorations. They have as much right as I do to display them. I’ve seen some displays that have a mixture of these symbols and decorations.
a liberal point of view i can do whatever i want then the say dont do that it offens me dear GOD have mercy on this country
Some of you Christians seem to be basing your opinion of atheists on the litigious behavior of a few malcontents. The majority of atheists just live their lives like everyone else, and couldn’t care less if Podunk, Wisconsin wants a baby Jesus in front of their town hall. Atheism and compatible philosophies do not exist just to annoy you, really!
Ann Brooks: Go ahead and display the Nativity Scene. The people support you and we don’t care about anyone in Wis-Con-Sin. Everyone should display a sign in our yards saying, “This is God’s Town”. These people are afraid of the words, God, Jesus, Christmas, and Thanksgiving. Even our department stores are afraid of these words. Department Stores say , Happy Holidays. Its time we take a stand and stop this. We are the Majority !
Had a wonderful Thanksgiving, God Bless you all. Jesus Loves you and have a very Merry Christmas.
…i believe no public money should be used to endorse any religion or religious groups. if the shoe was on the other foot, i can imagine the out cry from these christian folks if “their” tax-payers money was used to endorse “other” religions ceremonies…even though, these non-christians pay taxes too…if these folks want to put up a nativity…then the churches and its followers should pay and display it on private or church property…here in america…everyone should be able to play on a “level” playing field…
Merry CHRISTmas, what do you think the holiday is about? Hello people, is a nativity scene on public property doing anything to harm anyone? If you’re not a Christian then go about your business and IGNORE it..it’s not in your yard or preaching to you in your face! Maybe you shouldn’t have December 25th off from work then? Maybe you shouldn’t celebrate with family the holiday that IS a CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY. I think all Christians should take a stand and at least put nativity scene in our front yards!!
Atheism is the ultimate selfishness. It says, “I will have no other god but myself!” Why else would they put so much energy into trying to tear down the beliefs of others, energy that could be somehow spent to “build up”!
Do what my sister-in-law did in another state. Their way of “protesting”-every person bought a Nativity Scene and put them up in their own yard. Take THAT Wisconsin. Stand up for your beliefs-every person that possibly can-get your own Nativity Scene. Do not let outsiders control our part of the world.
@ Ben
Hahahahaha. Your post shows compassion, tolerance, and creativity. But I fear it went “whoosh”, right over the heads of most here.
Might I add that America was founded on INDIVIDUAL rights not mob rights. This means that no matter what your world view, be it religious, agnostic, atheist or something else entirely, you should be protected from having to finance the proliferation of the world view of others. I didn’t see any mobs at Bondurant,s this morning buying lumber to build nativity scenes on private property !! You’all would rather whine and show ignorance. Oh well.
We as Christians need and should stand up more against these kind of people because our right to publicly show any respect or love to Jesus Christ is being taken away from us . I pray they have a change of heart and find the right way before it’s to late. May God be with each and every one of you during this holiday season and I wish you all a Merry CHRISTMAS !!!
Seperation of church and state was never writtin in the constitution, it is in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to a preacher. Please read 5000 year leap, it is a wonderful book with writings from our founding fathers explaining thier views on this very subject. Mabe it is time for seperation, us from them!!!
Regardless of religious beliefs, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Atheist, Etc…..
The world acknowledges the birth of a child named Jesus Christ simply by what year it is.
It is now 2012 A.D. or two thousand twelve years since Jesus was born.
Even a non-believer would have to admit Jesus must be someone special, considering the World accepts his birth as a benchmark for what year we live in.
FYI:
B.C. means “Before Christ”, as most of us know. A .D. means “Anno Domini”, NOT “After Death” as some of us don’t know!
The year “2012″ is 2012 years since Jesus was BORN, not 33 years or so later when he was crucified and died. If that was the case, and A.D. meant “After Death”, it would now be the year 1979!
Oh Dear GOD in heaven, help us
more to the point… maybe you should study the true meaning of the colors, shape, and history of the “CANDYCANE”, then tell me if this religious symbol (cause yes it is and was christian based) should be removed from public property to. JUST MY OPINION…
It’s disheartening that these groups go around parading their lack of beliefs like this. How is what they’re doing any different from a Christian witnessing to another? They claim it’s all done for equality, but all I see is a loophole being exploited to push their belief or lack thereof. Merry Christmas everyone in Escambia county!
i pledge allegiance to flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation “UNDER GOD”… I believe this is STILL our pledge? So please tell me where YOUR separation is at!!!!!!!!! THAT’S WHAT I THOUGHT, enough said?
I was Born and Raised in Century. In School we said the Pledge of Allegiance, said a Prayer before school and we Prayed before a football game. Christmas decorations were in our homes and all over Town. No one forced you to say the Pledge of Allegiance if you didn’t agree with it. No one made you Pray before school or at ballgames if you didn’t believe in it. Or put up Christmas decorations if you didn’t believe in Jesus to celebrate His Birth. But we as Christians have the right to express our Belief’s. The Town of Century should be able to put up a Nativity Scene if they want to. If we as Christians don’t start standing up for what we believe in, we will soon have all our rights taken away. So many of those rights have already been taken away. Atheist are still trying to have Prayer stopped at School ballgames and Religious programs taken off television just to name a lot more. Don’t stand up and pray if you don’t want to but we still have the right to. Don’t turn your TV on a Religious program if you don’t want to see it. Stand up for our rights instead of letting them get by with this! Century put up a Nativity Scene I am sure you will have more citizens stand up for you than people that disagree.
Could someone explain how a nativity scene on public property is the same as “… the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion.”
Merry CHRISTmas to all! Merry CHRISTmas to you Wisconsin lawyers too!
I am from century borned and raised there ! This is absurd! If I was the mayor I would donate the nativity scene to the church in front. Of. The town hall and help them
People will do anything for a dollar, this makes me so sad for people that have no idea what CHRISTmas is about. Sad, sad, sad. !!!!!
I pray that God gets rid of this Wisconsin group.
This is simply ridiculous!!! I think that people have forgotten the reason we celebrate Christmas and let me remind somr that the first six letters spell Christ. I really think the people of century should take a stand and fight for their beliefs because if i am not mistaken isn’t freedom of religion part of the constitution? A nd freedom of expression! The Lord died for us and the least we can do is raise our voices in his name and remind everyone of the true meaning of CHRISTmas!!
Yeah.
On this one, I hate to say it, because I know it’s the Law, y’see-
but that doesn’t mean I have to like it or support it or help enforce it in any way, shape, or form. People from WISCONSIN (& elsewhere) ought to worry about their own little patch of ground.
And I don’t wanna read any comments from “atheists or agnostics” on this one, either. If a d***ed Nativity Scene offends you, I don’t care what you have to say about much of anything else in THIS world. “Public Property”? Well, I’m a part of the “Public”, and a Voting Citizen, as well.
Wouldn’t hurt my feelings a bit to see one or two more Larger than Life Sized 3 Wise Men, Joseph, Mary, & Baby Jesus, along with assorted giant barnyard animals, on the CourtHouse Lawn, in front of City Hall, or even on Top of the City Water Tower.
Y’all have a Merry Christmas, y’hear?
Values and morals are not exclusive christain traits, if that is what you believe and want to put it up fine, people need to learn tolerance and acceptance no matter what your beliefs are. If he is upset let him put up what he believes in but dont squash their right to freedom.
How about all of the Century residents put a nativity scene in their front yards, this is still America, and for the moment we still have freedom to express ourselves too.
@Ben
I think you are confusing majority rule with direct democracy. While we do not have direct democracy in America it is the role of our representatives to craft policy based on what benefits the majority of citizens as long as it does not violate individuals rights under the constitution.
Representatives to Congress and the Senate are elected by majority vote of their constituents. Bills are passed by majority votes of those representatives. Congress can override the President by two-thirds majority vote. The president is elected in most cases by majority vote as the electoral college usually follows the majority vote but not always (e.g. George W. Bush).
“We the people” refers to a majority of the citizens since 3/4 of the states can affect constitutional changes that apply to all the states.
It is highly unlikely that all 300+ million Americans will agree unanimously on anything, therefore it is majority rule as long as individual rights are not violated.
That is what is at debate, atheist’s individual rights vs. the free religious expression and individual rights of Christians.
Oh how I tried to refrain from commenting on this, but since there are I see some atheist commenting here, I feel like I need to take this opportunity to ask something I’ve been wondering…. I am asking this to the atheist, and NOT in a sarcastic manner…. What exactly is it that bothers you, offends you, puts fear in you, endangers you, harms you, distracts you, distresses you, disrupts your life, etc. about a nativity scene in public? How could you feel any of these things I just mentioned above, from a God you believe does not exist, as if He is the same as a cartoon character? No one is forcing you to stare at the nativity scene (or any other public display, Christian or other religious display), but at the same time- no one is writing you letters, threatening to sue you, take you to court, or throw you in jail if you do not become a Christian, like how you are threatening and persecuting Christians for speaking and displaying publicly their being Christian. Please explain to me your logic. I truly am not being sarcastic and really am trying to understand.
First I have to say that I am a Christian to the fullest, and I also agree that there should always be separation of church and state- exspecially in these times. So, though I disagree with the demand from the source (Lawyer) as well as the method and agenda behind it, I do indeed agree that it should be removed from public property. Afterall, Jesus lives in our hearts and we really don’t need a display at our Town Hall to prove it. I am sure God is please at the gesture of Ann for even suggesting it. I know I am as just a mere reader. So, even with the scene not being there, that doesn’t mean the anti-Christ movement has won anything. They came to late to defeat any Christian or Christ’s message. God won on the cross when he said it’s finish. Any racer can tell you that when you finish first, you win and “live” to keep winning; and he keeps winning as I can tell by the one’s who proclaim his name on this site with the responses.
Secondly, these atheists will continue to spend there lives trying to prove that God does not exist. Bless their hearts; You know why?? Because they REALLY believe that he does. How do I know?? They keep trying to say that “what already exists, really shouldn’t exist” “What already happened, really didn’t happen” etc. And some lawyers make a living just like this, saying the truth really isn’t the truth. I’m sorry but ” In the beginning was the Word,… and the Word was God, 14), and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us”. So, atheists, I understand you excessive energy trying to do the impossible and reverse what already is. Guess what – only God can do that. You like to tell me it’s dark when the the light really exists. Guess what – He did that too! But, darkness cannot exist without the LIGHT. So as dark as your message and agenda is, there is light to reverse it all. Jesus is the “Light” of this dark world! Christ is the real reason that we even have Christmas whether the government, a lawyer, or the anti-Christ accepts it or not. I pray that we all get to know who God is just a little bit better. Merry Christmas!!
aclj.org
It is evident that some atheists are willing to fight for what they believe. Are we? I emailed aclj
My tax dollars are going to fund planned parent hood, you know the baby killers,and i sure do not like that, so I believe the atheist should grow up and get over it, what bunch of whiners. Put it up and bog it down in the courts.
To All atheists: you will argue now but I’m gonna say@ the end you will believe in my God too, because you will cry out my God my God. Can I get a whoop whoop? Who’s ya Daddy?
When will people understand that “christianity” is not a specific religion but a philosophy with many demoninations shooting off from that philosophy? Such groups as the Foundation for Freedom from Religion need to do their homework and get off of their crusade of trying to intervene in the lives of millions of people who believe in the christian philosophy. Why is it that they can try to destroy our beliefs when to my knowledge those of the christian philosphy do not try to disuade them from their beliefs? In my personal opinion they are just trying to FORCE their beliefs on those who don’t practice the non-belief philosophy
I am so tired of all these non christian groups that dont want Christians to do anything that may encourage some morals, while they get to do what ever they want to promote their belief’s. It’s sad that a Manger scene can cause so many problems for them. What are they going to do when Jesus comes back to claim his people? Sue him for his entrance? tell him he cant come back from the East he needs to come back from the south? Seriously we live (for now) in a free country, but these things are predicted to happen. Christains will be mocked and even killed in the last days. All I am going to say is Thank God he sent my Lord and Savior to that Manger. I BELIEVE IN GOD AND I AM PROUD TO SAY I DO..
i cannot believe any of you that dont believe in god,just ask yourself how did we all get here on earth.and there cant be but one answer GOD MADE US really folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Put up the manger scene nobody cares wat an atheists or a Muslim thinks Christianity is the only real and true religion
So I say put up the manger scene
Organizations such as the Freedom From Religion Foundation have perverted the meaning of the First Amendment. It restricts Congress from establishing a national religion. The Town of Century is a local government representing local citizens who should be able to have a Nativity scene purchased with their tax dollars if the majority of residents agree they want it. The good people of Century should make their voices heard by the City Council.
Separation of Church and State is not in the Bill of Rights. Leftists use this phrase from Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists to try to stifle Christianity in the public forum. It’s funny how they don’t take Jefferson quite so literally when it comes to his views on gun rights and the size of the federal government.
The minority atheists rights are not violated as long as they are not forced to participate in religious ceremonies.
If an atheist’s rights are violated for their tax dollars going to a Nativity scene that they do not believe in, then my rights are being equally violated for federal grants to the Endowment for the Arts to regularly produce garbage that they call art that offends me. By the same principal, my rights will be violated January 2014 for my tax dollars to go to support public transportation that I do not use.
No matter what time of year, or what year Christ was born or how many pagan traditions have been incorporated into the holiday, Christmas was instituted to celebrate the birth of Jesus. Therefore if Mr. Seidel doesn’t like Christian displays for the holiday, let him sue Congress that made December 25th a holiday to eliminate it. He will not because he would lose. They prefer to bully small towns without the financial resources to defend themselves in long drawn out litigation.
Merry Christmas to all, including Mr. Seidel and the FRFF
Sad, are you sure that was the constitution you fully read and studied? I’m confused how you got majority rule out of that document.
Another suggestion: There is absolutely NOTHING anyone can do about live nativity characters walking around on public sidewalks or streets greeting people and sharing the Nativity message.
Our founding principles give citizens freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Faith and freedom helped build this nation, and faith cannot and should not be removed from public life.
Century should do what Texas has just done (including the Governor and the AG of Texas): “Go ahead and sue, we won’t bother showing up, defending it, nor paying the slightest attention to any court order that comes from it. Because your lawsuit is meaningless. If you’re an atheist, then it is some cute baby in a manger, might not be the best example to young mothers, but it beats the old dumpster. If you want freedom /from/ religion, well, that’s just your problem, isn’t it? You’re choosing to be offended by someone else’s faith. That’s your problem, not anyone else’s.
The courts will have two choices… Ever increasing court orders which are also ignored, or they can stop accepting these idiotic lawsuits and trying to twist legislative and constitutional intent to fit their rulings, something that is not only ever increasingly difficult, but truthfully is creating law from the bench, which is unconstitutional.”
It is time for the 99% to stand up and fight against the 1% who seem to be calling the shots on everything.
I am ok with any level of government not being allowed to display Christian symbols or items depicting the Christian faith during Christian holidays. Having said that, I would absolutely demand that same government entity not be allowed to display ANY symbol or item depicting ANY religious faith during that faiths holiday. In other words, equal protection from ALL proselytizing. During other religious holidays do not display items of that faith…no Jewish, Islam, Shinto, Buddhism, Satanic or otherwise on government property. Do this and I agree with the nay-sayers against displaying Christian things during a Christian holiday. Until then…shut up! You do NOT get to have your way against one faith and have a different way with another faith. Oh, and by the way, I am not a Christian, I lean more to agnostism than anything else. I just believe that if one group can’t say what they want during a legally recognized/sanctioned event, then neither can other groups during their recognized/sanctioed event..
Atheists are pathetic!!! They have no morals to live by and lets face it, its because they have no one to answer to in the end. That is why they are attacking EVERYONE and have zero shame!!!! If atheists truly wanted fairness and equality then they would be forcing century to vote on it!!!! And if the majority of Century residents vote Yes for a nativity scene then that is what they get and atheists groups would have to shut up. Atheists tend to forget this is a democracy. Your actions of trying to bully and force your issues and beliefs down others throats is not following the constitution either! Want to have a constitution discussion with an actual constitutionalists, I am more than happy!!!! I have actually fully read and studied the constitution. Dont try to hide your hate acts behind it. You sound ignorant.
they took CHRIST out of school now the world is getting worse. why is everyone tryin to take CHRIST out of CHRISTmas. I think we should let the season stay about JESUS CHRIST. HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS. CENTRY AND THE REST OF THE NATION
Cliff, I will be praying for you to get salvation!
You can’t put religious things on property paid for by the tax payer that only represents one religion. In fact, no tax money should support any religion. IT very plain and simple, either out all different relgios symbols, jews, muslim ect or nothing at all. Do what you want on your own property don’t shove it down everyone throats on a gov owned site! BUT WHAT DO I KNOW I’M JUST A TAXPAYER.
If Ann will put up a Manger, I bet she would get funds donated to purchase the Manger!
I would be the first to help with a donation!
Just say the word Ann!
Euquality for athiests is depicted in the manger scene…your god is not there!
If you don’t want to see the nativity display go around to the other side of town. Do you cut off your nose because it won’t stop running?? I didn’t think so. So mayor of Century take that stand and don’t stoop to their level of hatred.
>”I would tell people not of Century to stay out of Century business. This is our county, not his. We don’t have liberal values here. We have OUR North Florida values. The Town of Century needs to respond to the liberal group and tell them to get lost.”<
Who is "we"? I assume you're saying every other person in Century thinks exactly like you do? Whether you think so or not, there ARE atheists and agnostics who live in Century, and they pay taxes just like you do.
Christians’ tax money goes to support things that most of them are against. What is the difference?
I will be praying for all of you, that you will come to know VICTORY IN VISHNU!
Since the real nativity was June 27 (even though I pulled that date out of thin air, try to prove me wrong), there shouldn’t be any nativity sets up this time of year anyway.
CLIFF…Then dont drive 40 in a 35 and you wont get pulled over…simple…you may not belive ih GOD but will believe in the LAW my dear brother
I’m an Athiest, and I don’t care, do what you want Century, just don’t pull me over when i’m going 40 in a 35 and we’ll be cool.
Whatever happened to equality?
Quite a few people here have some serious problems with fair play. Everyone seems to be fine when it’s their religion/ opinion on display, but tend to have an issue if someone else does the same. There are other stories similar to this when atheists put up posts of a secular nature and they were vandalized. I think it was a smart move. You can post as much as you want on your property, the churches will have many up as well. There is no lack of religion/belief it appears with as many places that show case it. A Govt. building seems like a pretty small thing to ask, especially since they must represent all people equally under the law. You’re ability to express your love for anything publicly doesn’t make you a fervent believer, nor does your lack make you less of one.
I imagine that if the town officials were to erect a minaret on public property that shouted muslim prayers five times a day, the local christians would have quite a different view on the rules regarding freedom from religion.
Agreed Jeremy!!!!!!!!!!
Why anyone would take the opinion of a lawyer is beyond me in the first place. I have worked in the law field for many years and have yet to find a lawyer that knows much about actual law. Most just have an opinion and people believe them because the have a law degree.
Our founding fathers were white, Christian, male, and straight. That should have been good enough for all of you.
But no, first we have to go and set the slaves free.
Then we have to give women equal rights.
Now, we can’t endorse our religion on public property with taxpayer dollars.
What is this world coming to??? It’s getting to be so we can’t discriminate against anybody anymore.
What a sad world we are living in! It is dangerous to even speak because there are those standing around waiting to call a lawyer to make a buck off you.
It doesn’t matter when Christ was born, just that we all know he did. He came so that we could be saved and have a better life here on earth and when we leave here. I love the Lord and it has been a struggle, but I could not make it without him.
One day I’m going home!!!!! I just hate what my grandkids and greats are going to have to go through.
Merry Christmas everyone while I’m still able to say it. May god bless your New Year!
Also, building dozens of nativity scenes will benefit our local economy. Bondurant lumber is standing by for your orders.
If you’re Christian and you want a nativity scene displayed, then you pay for it and you put it up in front your business, your church anywhere along the main drag in Century. The issue here is separation of American government from religious influence and proliferation. It protects religion, it doesn’t suppress it. Paying for a Christian display in our multi-religious, multi-cultural (and great because of it) country with tax money, when it is illegal, constitutes abuse of taxpayer’s rights. Tax money isn’t offered freely, but your tithing at your church is. If you want to secede from the USA and try a theocratic government then I’d advise that you re-study American history and the development of our Constitution first and save you and your descendants from religious persecution. So exercise that freedom of expression you all are claiming is being taken from you. You are free to pepper the entire city of Century with nativity scenes. Just put up the cash and do it.
All is well…the sinners will burn in hell and the believers will have eternal life. Those in denial will hopefully be saved before the day of reckoning. Thank the Lord for culling the flock.
Our money still still has in God we trust on it. If so many object to displays of faith then why do they celebrate Christmas? This country is suposed to support tolerance and freedom of religion. Some homeowners associations are beginning to support having nothing faith based be displayed in their communities south Florida is especially guilty of this. It saddens me.
All I can say is KEEP CHRIST IN CHRISTMAS. That can be done with or without a manger scene. I would prefer to have the manger, but until cities. towns, states, and PEOPLE come back to the basics, this will not happen. This church and state issue is to keep the government out of churches, NOT churches out of government. Once again the statement is taken out of context to make it say what it doesn’t. And if it wasn’t the remembrance of Christ’s birth, there would be NO CHRISTmas. Maybe it would be called winter holiday, or some thing so merchants could make money, but anyways …………… MERRY CHRISTmas to all!
why are schools having concerts at a church? I don’t understand the diffrence? Even if it is after school the children still have to attend.
Northender 43 How ignorant are you? All of the founding fathers were not Christians! Thomas Jefferson cut things out of the bible he did not like…..Seriously…I am a Christian but the “Christians” of today are so ignorant…..
I would tell people not of Century to stay out of Century business. This is our county, not his. We don’t have liberal values here. We have OUR North Florida values. The Town of Century needs to respond to the liberal group and tell them to get lost. The American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) would be interested in this case and might be able to help.
This argument would be completely opposite if there had been a wiccan symbol displayed. The point is that this is public property. Not everyone believes that Christmas is Christ’s birthday. There are actually plenty of Christians who do not celebrate it as Christ’s birthday. Not everyone believes in Christianity period. Religion is a personal thing and should be kept that way.
wow, isn’t it wonderful that we live in such a place where we can have an open and honest discussion about such a controversial topic.
I am a Christian. I know that Jesus was born sometime in the spring and that the pagan winter solstic celebration was replaced with a celebration of the Birth of Christ. I used to know why, but I have forgotten. But, this is when we CHRISTIANS celebrate the birth of CHRIST, our Savior. It is a Christian celebration. If you are not a Christian then please do not tell me where, when, or how to celebrate ou Christian holiday. There is no need for you to be offended by a Nativity Scene if you reguard it as a myth because it does not hurt you. What if Christians decided that the portral of Santa Clause was offensive? If you do not believe in Christ, then dont celebrate Christmas. Its thar easy. Lets stop allowing lawyers to tell us how to live and get on with our lives. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL
I cannot comprehend some people in this world. SO WHAT if Century has a manger. GET OVER IT. You have the right to be offended WITHOUT being a whinny baby about it. It’s funny how everyone expects to get paid when they are offended.
YES,YES,YES, I;m His, have been for most of my life and will continue to be until I pass from this life. Oh Glory, just think I’ll be with him while those others (who don’t believe & live for Him) will be in that burning you know where, just not in Heaven. Those people try, but will never succeed in the end, maybe in this world, but certainly not in the one I’m destined for. It was tried once before, BUT HE AROSE – JUST TELLS YOU HOW POWERFUL OUR GOD IS!! I don’t put out Christmas trees, or decorations, BUT in THIS HOUSE, WE BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, GOD ALMIGHTY!! AMEN! We celebrate with a big dinner for the family, pray and thank GOD for all we have. We’ve worked hard for all we have, BUT God have given us the strength and will to do so. Just like He’s done for everyone whether they believe in HIM or not! IN HIS CARE!!
can someone please help me i need to understand how one to maybe 10 people can speak and say i dont belive in christ so there for no else can this country was found with god in mind its on our money it iis in all of laws for witch this country was built on there are churches all over this nation and they are full every sunday and wednesdays from big to small so if u dont belive in christ im sure there is someplace u can go and be welcome but u are not welcome here try another country or maybe ur own island hell see how well it work for jim jones he left nobody missed him
To Northender—- I am a Christian and will always be and that’s that. However, ALL of the Founding Fathers were Christians?? You are sadly mistaken. They were all either Deists or Freemasons–not Christians. This country was founded on religious freedom, not Christianity. Go read the Treaty of Tripoli. It explicitly states America was NOT founded on Christianity. Just a bit of history.
Jesus said to the THEM, “if God were your father, you would love me, because I have came to you from God, I am not here of my own, but He Sent Me”. John 8:42
And I will put enmity beetween you and the woman (Eve) and between your (satan) seed and her’s (Eve), he will crush your head and you will bruise his heel. Genisis 3:15
Do not be like Cain, WHO WAS OF THE EVIL ONE and murdered his brother, and why did he murder him, because his works were wicked, and Abel’s were rightous. 1 John 3:12
You are of your father the devil and you will do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:44
What do you expect from these beings? They are of their father and will do his work, just as we will do the work of OUR FATHER the Lord. We will love and honor His Son, Our Savior Jesus Christ.
Like it is said, Athiest by day ,believer by night. When all else fails, who you gonna call. It sure isn’t Ghost Busters.
Where do people think CHRISTmas came from Santa. If you are an atheist you should not want Christmas trees and wreaths either. Does that person that complained buy Christmas presents? If they do like it or not they are celebrating the birth of JESUS!!!!!! I hope Ann Brooks puts up a nativity at her office. Happy Birthday Jesus!!!!!!
Yes please display the “secular” message “Peace on Earth and Good Will Toward Men”! Too funny, that secular message is straight biblical scripture from the heavenly hosts themselves celebrating the birth of King Jesus! Luke 2:14.
Thank you! Because we all know Christmas is about getting gifts, and spending lots of money shopping to support the economy. It is definitely not about myth of Santa Claus and the birth of Jesus. If we really investigated dates we would find out Jesus was really born sometime in June not December. Oh and jolly old Saint Nick was actually inspired by a Christian Bishop, what next? You want to remove Santa Claus from Christmas too? The pagans are taking over once again. Oh but I digress most holidays are based off pagan beliefs that Christians put a spin on.
/end rant + sarcasm
It is a shame most people don’t do research and study origins of things we take at face value or what others tell us to believe.
I wish Ann Brooks would buy the BIGGEST Manger scene you’ve ever seen and display it right in front of her business. This is so sad.
to Local Yocal, regarding: “Once again, the wants of a few dictate to the majority. This country has gone completely off course. One person can decide what is right for an entire population. Headed to you know where in a hand basket!!!”
It’s not one person deciding for an entire population…do you remember this thing called the Constitution? Yeah, it was also meant to keep the seperation of church and state, and some of that has slipped by also. But, for the non-religious it sure feels like only one person is trying to help keep the religious in line. Have your nativity scenes, just do it on private property!
And, Freda Whaley, regarding your comment: “Another blow to CHRISTmas. It’s sad how far we have come from what the holiday is really about. Why not just band the whole thing and get rid of the holiday once and for all?”
What a GREAT idea! And this is not sarcasm.
You can’t put religious things on property paid for by the tax payer that only represents one religion. In fact, no tax money should support any religion.
/common sense
CHRISTmas is not about anything but CHRIST! This country is getting out of control.
I think it’s funny how many non-believers cry foul at Christian Christmas decorations. There would be no Christmas for everyone to get all up in arms about without our “mythology” in the first place. When did Christians celebrating our beliefs become “mythology shoved in our faces”? Was it before or after everyone enjoyed their Christmas presents, and time with your own family?
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph 6:12
Christians stand firm in our beliefs and pray for everyone. God Bless you all, oh and Jesus loves and believes in you even if you don’t him!
I agree with you Janet. What about our freedom of religion? TO DUKE – This Country was FOUNDED on CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES. ALL of the FOUNDING FATHERS were CHRISTIANS.
I say the heck with all this stuff about being afraid of what others think. Put up whatever you like. That is what FREEDOM OF RELIGION is. Why is it that only in the last decade has Nativity scenes, Crosses, and other decorations been offensive to people? It because we as Christians have allowed ourselves to be pushed out and around. CHRISTIANS STAND UP FOR WHAT WE BELIEVE IN! CHRIST IS LORD AND HE WILL COME AGAIN!!!!
This is simply a case of someone whinig and the lawyers who get to make a quick buck serving those who complain. Those that complained about this need to rethink how they ever got the freedom to open their giant pie hole to say anything. Just shut up and don’t look at any Christmas display. Just live your lonely grinch life alone and sad.
The “hater” must not be so sure and/proud of his non beliefs since the attorney didn’t want to release the name of the ONE Century resident that opposed. I find it interesting that he had to pay a Wisconsin attorney. I bet no local attorney would do it.
How do we let a lawyer from across the country tell us what is best for our community?
Take a stand Century!!! 1 Timothy 2:5 says: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” He is the one that WAS BORN IN A MANGER!! Put the truth out there because it might be the only thing people see while passing by. Don’t let a “so called atheist” stop this, TAKE A STAND.
Just a few years ago this would not have been an issue. We wonder what is happening to our country and why. This is part of it. So let’s please the non-believers and the followers. I bet if you let everyone vote it would be unanimous keep the nativity scene! Ridiculous!!! What rights will they take next? On the fast track to not staying a free country. Socialism, Communism what’s next? Change is coming.
Once again, the wants of a few dictate to the majority. This country has gone completely off course. One person can decide what is right for an entire population. Headed to you know where in a hand basket!!!
What about the First Amendment rights for the Believers…. Those who know the Christmas story of Jesus’s birth is magical and not mythical. I take great offense to his comments!
I agree with Mr Seidel. We should not have other peoples mythology shoved in our face. Mr Dannheisser thank you, a menorah would make a much nicer display.
Mayor McCall you should know better. Who do you think you are!
It is getting harder and harder for people with Christian values to live in today’s world as we lose more and more rights to groups such as this and the ACLU. It must be a miserable life for someone who’s priority is to seek out people doing things they disagree with and then spend all your time and effort to figure out a way to stop them and force them into your way of thinking. Like it or not this country and government was founded on Christian values and God was very much a part of it.
Another blow to CHRISTmas. It’s sad how far we have come from what the holiday is really about. Why not just band the whole thing and get rid of the holiday once and for all? How did we let this happen?