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Escambia Pushes Gas Tax Hike To Fund Public Transit
November 9, 2012
Escambia County residents may pay more at the pump in order to fund the ECAT bus system.
The Escambia County Commission voted 4-0, with Commissioner Kevin White absent, to schedule a public hearing next week on a 4-cent per gallon increase to the county gas tax.
The item was not on the planned agenda for the commission’s Thursday morning meeting, but it was brought forward by outgoing Commissioner Marie Young, who did not seek re-election.
Commissioners recognized that they were purposefully considering the gas tax increase just hours before two new commissioners — Steven Barry in District 5 and Lumon May in District 3 — are sworn into office on November 20. Commissioner Wilson Robertson.
If approved, the increased gas tax is expected to net the county about $4 million when it takes effect no earlier than January 2014. It currently costs the county about $3.2 million to fund the Escambia County Area Transit System, plus about $3.7 million from grants from the state and federal governments.
Escambia County currently collects 10-cents in tax per gallon — a direct 7-cent levy plus a 3-cent levy collected by the state and returned to the county.
The public hearing on the proposed gas tax increase is set for Monday, November 19 at 10:30 a.m.
Pictured: Gas prices in Davisville. NorthEscambia.com photo, click to enlarge.
Comments
72 Responses to “Escambia Pushes Gas Tax Hike To Fund Public Transit”
NO .. NO .. NO
Sounds like our county is having the same economic problems as our state and country. Too much spending, not enough money, tax everyone – remove the choice from the people.
No one else is paying a cent on my auto maintenence or insurance. I understand people helping people and I can appreciate those who are getting a job and trying…but seriously? I don’t use the transit bus system and wonder if there is waste here too. Tighten-up ECAT, tighten-up. (Better yet, set a better example for all of us. That goes for our county commissioners too. Set the example of positive progress and a higher bar.)
Hopefully, since the tax was approved (or pushed through quickly) it can be changed after a while. The more money you give to government – the more they will spend and the more they will need. The longer they receive these funds the more the expect it…just like other people getting free-stuff.
Just saying.
NEVER vote yourself a tax increase. When you do you remove all responsibility for accountability from the politicians. They will then have a free hand to do what they will with the revenue. Many times they will use this method to get the public to vote themselves a tax increase then turn around and raise property taxes anyway.
Why so many large buses? Could ECAT downsize to smaller vans to cover routes with fewer than 10-20 riders? Could some of those routes be better managed? Looks to me that once again the union has priced themselves into extension.
If passed, I will just carry my business to Alabama in protest.
I was raised in Birmingham. Back in the 50’s Birmingham and Atlanta were about the same size. There was competition between the airlines as to where to build a new hub. The Birmingham fathers must have decided they had it in the bag because the passed an aviation fuel tax. You see where the hub was built and the size difference in the cities now. Incidentally the Birmingham airport is proportionally about the same size it was in the 50’s.
In the 60’s I want to work in B’ham after college. The city fathers decided to levy an occupational tax on businesses in B’ham. Many many businesses shut down, moved in some cases a few blocks into the county and reopened. Downtown B’ham has never recovered. No one lives in B’ham that can afford to live else where.
This will be the fate of Pensacola and eventually Escambia county if this kind of irresponsible leadership continues both in the City and County.
I was at a meeting last week about the Library cutbacks – did you know that the city has voted to build a new library in the western section without the monies to support it or the existing library system and the people in that section of town spoke up and do not want a new library where they are going to build this new one
I am so discussed with the whole bunch – city and county commissioners and mayor – I say throw them all out – we can do better than this.
Why give these people a free ride when “working county employees ” haven’t seen a raise in over 7 years. The county court secretaries got a raise why not all of the county employees. Answer that Wilson or should we ask Tourat.
Can’t ECAT do what the school system did? Lower the number of buses used? Instead of having three bus drivers driving three buses three times a day, they now have one driver driving one bus on three routes three times a day.
@Betty H : ” If it passes just drive a couple extra miles and buy gas in Santa Rosa..”
REALLY?! For the vast majority of us in ESC County, SRC is more than just a “couple” of extra miles. When you consider the round trip, it’s absolutely does NOT make sense.
Those of us that oppose this tax should speak up. I, for one, am tired of paying for those that feel they have a sense of entitlement. They need to raise the fee to ride the bus.
“Does anyone remember watching the ECAT walking around carring signs on strike?”
It wasn’t ecat although I forget the group it was. I remember the folks with the signs at Texar and 29, but again, not ECAT.
Does anyone remember watching the ECAT walking around carring signs on strike? It seems they always get what they want somehow. Now I’ve held a job for over 20 years working for the State and have not seen a raise in 8 years, only consessions. It’s time for the CC’s and ECAT to concede. No new tax period, cut your drivers, your routes, your maintence personel, and most of those in a supervisory position and keep only enough of what you have to run with with no new funding.
voteing, a privlage or right?
NO gas is high enough do not make the north end of the county pay we do not use it.let that be on p’cola’s shoulders.
just another example of a gimme from politicians paid for by the ones who do not need it in order for those politicians to get a feather in their cap from the voters who use it….energy prices are on the way up and we conmtinue to allow these politicians to add more onto the total cost…..another example of taking from those who have and giving to those who are too sorry and disfunctional to have anything on their own….so sick of this , sick of paying for these people…..if you cannot make it in a country where opportunities are aboundful , such as this, then you are a leech,a freeloader,a parasite……trash….how do you live with yourselves????too many gimmes in society today, food stamps, housing subsidies, cell phones, heating subsidies……i feel we need to go back to gov’t cheese lines instead of food stamps, if you do not like it then go get the means to get out of the cheese lines,….sick of paying for my families food and also paying for the freeloaders food with food stamps in line behind me……enough is enough….
Boycott this by not buying gas in Escambia County! You would see that these buses are not utilized if you could look through their tinted windows!! Does anyone have an idea how to fight the increased service charges we see on our bills because we provide “Free Obama telephone and cable service?” For the life of me I don’t understand why ” less fortunate individuals” needs to be able to text 4 hours and talk 4 hours on a cell phone. Maybe Social Worker can enlighten me.
This will not reduce the burden on the tax payer. Have you ever seen the county give anything back. They will move it to some other pet project so the tax payer will be paying for it both ways.
Let the people who use the system pay for it. Why should we have to pay for everything? Our property taxes have already gone up and no one can afford any more increases in taxes! Why should our gas prices rise because ECAT riders don’t want to pay more to ride the bus?
“Why don’t they convert these buses to run off LNG? Wasn’t there an LNG ”
CNG
LNG is liquified, cryogenic natural gas, CNG is simply compressed natural gas
And yes, there is one somewhere on Pine Forest Road. I doubt the fuel cost is the major cost, buses and drivers and maintenance will be high and ridership will always be low in a rural county, simply too inconvenient.
What there saying on TV is we’re already paying for this through property taxes. If so then if there’s a tax on gas then there should be a reduction on our property taxes. I bet that will never happen.
Why don’t they convert these buses to run off LNG? Wasn’t there an LNG filling station just opened in Pensacola?
If ECAT would come to Walnut Hill to benefit some of the less fortunate up here and let them ride cheap I would be willing to pay, but this does not happen, so why should we pay for the less fortunate in Pensacola to ride the bus. We pay taxes in the in the northwest corner of the county just like the south end and get the shaft all the time. So suck it up Pensacola make it a city tax not county. I will drive the 10 miles to Atmore and buy my gas there and support Alabama instead.
I am so tired of these commissioners with their stupid ideas. Listen ! Hard heads! The ECAT was a failure before you started it. It continues to be a failure, and will always be a failure. Don’t you get it? I’m not paying for your stupidity. Dear friends and neighbors. Someone please start a petition for a special election to cut our county commissioners pay at least 75%, maybe 80% then I will assure you we will get someone that cares and understands that we the people have had enough of their taxes and especially their little ECAT failure.
No, let those who use the system bear it’s cost.
“User Fees”
We have no choice when it comes to subsidizing
“Obama Phones”. But since we have a voice in this
matter, I say NO!
So many people need the ECat bus system but the County needs to come up with some other way for the money. The gas prices are already way to high for everyone.
Just how did this get mismanaged enough to reach this point.
On did they waste a million or so for a tag office in nowhere. Did they waste 20 million plus for a emergency management building on w street that does absolutely nothing but watch s big screen tv. O did they waste money on county offices in downtown pensacola flood zone. O did they expand the court house in a flood area. O did they buy old ball park on w street and loose a million or so. So if Fed and state funding was cut you cut the service. There’s no need running elmpty buses anyway.
Where did all thoes republican politicians go that wasn’t going to raze our taxes. What’s wrong with using some of that windfall from BP. Or is that already planed to be thrown away another way. Remember these so called CC didnt have enough sence to save that windfall tax back in 04 through 07. You people are so dumb you think Obama or Demorcrats caused this but its your local republicans giving you the shaft. Also how dumb are these CC knowing that gas sales is going to get less over time because of alternate fuels being developed or going to electric. Why don’t they buy all new natural gas buses like ECUA garbage trucks. They can save 1 million or so a year if they would spend 100 million or so on new buses. Sound stupid I no and it is.
@Social Worker – I agree with your comments completely. I think that public transportation can be a lifesaver to someone who cannot drive anywhere and allows them to provide a livelihood for their family. I don’t necessarily think that fares should go up, but why should we (I say we as in those who drive, purchase gas, pay other taxes to support community welfare) have to pay another tax on something else, while maybe other programs/funding could be cut so that the system is run a little more frugal. I have no problem at all supporting people who need help. I think it is awesome that people have the initiative and drive to get out and hold a job and provide for their family to the best of their ability, with assitance from the system. I get moderately irritated, however, when I see someone in the grocery store who has 9 kids, 4 buggies full of chips, sodas, pizzas, and little debbie cakes, holding an iPhone, driving a nice brand new car, and paying for their grocery items with an EBT card. That infuriates me. I worked my butt off to go to college and get a great job, but am having to pinch pennies and save so that I can afford to live but my cost of living keeps going up so that I can support many people who survive off of and abuse the system. I love helping people who truly need assistance, so Ecat is something that I think should stick around and be a necessity. But, I think that the county commisioners need to look at how they are spending or voting to spend money and see if it is truly a responsible manner to spend and allocate.
Welcome to Obama’s helping hand!
This actually benefits wealthier people. Right now this is funded by property taxes, and people with property worth more money pay more tax. ECAT riders are typically poor, and pay little or no property tax. Under the new proposal, wealthy people will pay less, because they don’t use any more gas than anyone else. It’ll actually be spread out among more of the middle class.
Under either system, the actual riders of ECAT aren’t paying “their fair share”, because they don’t use gas, and they don’t pay much property tax.
Increase bus fares? Do y’all even know who uses the public bus system? People with developmental disabilities and people with extremely low-incomes. I know first hand because being in the Social Work industry, I have accompanied some of those with disabilites on the public bus to help them learn routes. Those same people you say “live off the government and don’t work”. Shame on you. Truly, you have no idea. The public bus IS how they get to work. $1.75 a ride might be not be anything to y’all, but to them it’s an awful lot. Aren’t we, who are most definitely better off than those public bus riders, supposed to try and help those in need? Goodness people. Please look past yourselves and the effect that this will have on you and try and see the bigger picture.
All the comments below sadden me. I understand you don’t want to “pay your hard earned money” to help “free loaders”, but has anyone every considered that there might actually be people out there that really need our help? People who are most definitely less fortunate than ourselves. People who cannot help themselves. ECAT riders, whether you believe or not, are some of those people.
And before anyone says anything, yes, the increase in taxes would effect myself as I do have a vehicle and am able to drive myself to work. However, I can also find something postive in that statement. I HAVE a vehicle and I am ABLE to drive myself. Count your blessings, wherever you may find them.
Stop this insanity! These buses have horrible ridership. I never see more than 5 people on these buses. Increase the fare or start shutting down useless routes. The 10 cent subsidy that is already in place could be used to fund a public service that generates safety instead of cheap rides to the select few. How about we start filling some fire stations instead. There have been thousands of times in the past year alone that the station that was requested for an emergency or non emergency call that did not respond because of inadequate personnel (this is a statistic that was on the news a couple of weeks ago). I would much rather have adequate fire protection than a transit route that I will never use.
I agree with Tami below – I think it’s setup so they can “compromise” for 2 or 3 cents/gallon instead. I did read somewhere else that Mr. Barry wants the commission to wait until the new members are seated to vote on this. I agree with this. No way the lame duck members should vote on a new tax just a couple of weeks before they leave.
I could see making all of Escambia County pay if the ECAT were it avaible to us all fairly. The only place we on the northend of the county can go on the ECAT is Pensacola. If the Northend could use the ECAT to get around down this end of the county that would be one thing but, we cann’t. So how is it fair to make us pay for something that does not benefit all the county?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let’s make certain we show up for that meeting in force.
When: 10:30 a.m. Nov. 19.
Where: Commission chambers, 221 Palafox Place.
Well where have we heard this before? Let’s see, let those who work and have pay for those who want a “”free ride “” Can’t quite remember right now. Hmmm, well any way, no , and hell no. All of the CC”s read this blog so they are going to get a very good idea that this will not fly, either increase the rate’s or cut it back. We are paying our far share. But should they decide to go against common sense, I’ll just buy my gas in Alabama. And I hope all those of you who can do the same thing. Seem’s the County C’s are getting off on the wrong foot. Not a good way to start a new term. If you are going to use this system , pay for it . And by the way , if you want to hold a meeting , and get the one’s who will have to pay for it, our opinion’s, have the meeting at a time where we can really give our opinions.
tc ” Remember this when they come up for election again.”
Wilson Robertson and his two cronies just hired Touart to fill a position that the assistant county administrator said he would do temporarily for free. Wilson was easily re-elected after this fiasco. I say “remember this when election time comes around” is only hollow words at this point.
Why not increase the fares on the busses? Those people are the ones who should have to pay for this. There is a bus that runs from Century to Pensacola and I would wager that only one or two passengers ride that bus. I am sick and tired of taking care of those who pay absolutely no taxes and live off the people who do. We are taxed enough already. And there is absolutely enough taxes on gasoline. NO!NO!NO!
Everyone needs to go to the website http://www.myescambia.com and leave a message for the commissioners. I did and I hope others have too. If we stand together and refuse this they will back down. But we HAVE to stand together and not let them push us around, not just talk about it.
REGARDING:
“If it passes just drive a couple extra miles and buy gas in Santa Rosa.”
That WOULD work. Don‘t know how well it would work. Let us assume 15 gallons purchased in Jay rather than in Century. Four cents per gallon yields sixty cents saved.
Distance wouldn’t be a couple of miles, though, rather 14 miles round trip. You would have to burn less than sixty cents worth of fuel to break even, not even counting wear and tear on vehicle. Assume $2/gallon, sixty cents worth of two dollar gas would be 0.3 gallons or 47 miles per gallon. If your vehicle gets less than 47 miles per gallon, it costs more to drive to Jay than to buy for four cents more in Century.
But gas isn’t two dollars per gallon. Call it $3.30 per gallon. So to save sixty cents, you would have to burn less than 0.18 gallons of fuel. To do that, your vehicle would have to get at least 77 miles per gallon or you are paying more to drive to Jay than to buy for four cents more in Century.
This doesn’t sound cost efficient.
David for CNG
(which would require even MORE miles to buy)
So Comissioner Young is not seeking re-election but she had time to propose this tax increase, interesting. She is also on the sign that sits in front of the new community center on Wagnor for the Wedgewood Subdivision which is paid for by our tax dollars. I have yet to see hardly anyone using the facility or the playground and I am sure this cost several million dollars to construct but why should she care it was not her money. There was already an existing school on this property that could have been refurbished for a community center but instead it sits vacant. What a waste of tax payers money just like this gas tax increase. the meeting on this is of course during working hours when alot of people cannot attend such as myself because I actually have to work for a living to pay for the people that choose not to work and still get a free ride. Unfortunately the area I live in is not condusive to riding the bus to work so instead I get to help pay for others to ride, nice.
REGARDING:
“How can you expect us taxpayers to pay for something for others”
Actually, that’s the whole concept of taxation in the first place.
David for meanings
Ok, Mr. Barry, me and my entire family voted for you, time to pay the fiddler. We do not want this tax increase. Period! For this to be even considered is insane. We buy cars, gas, insurance, tags, tires, oil, & maintainance, which is already highly taxed, let the ” RIDERS” pay their own way doggone it!!! This kinda thing is causing alot of rebelling from the middleclass which is headed into poverty….can’t you people see it??? Or has the world just gone crazy??????(Derek) prime example. No, No, No, to any new taxes!!!!!
More hand outs. Whoever came up with this idea must have voted for Obama.
Do what??
I drive my own vehicle. Why should I have to help pay for their ride?
Of course they would suddenly throw something out there like this because now the elections are over. Remember this when they come up for election again.
It’s the Obama mentality. We have to pay “our fair share” so those who can’t pay can get around. I have no problem with Ecat, but .04 per gallon ?
Meanwhile Law Enforcement Officers haven’t seen a COLA increase in 6+ years, County Commission won’t honor there part and fund the SO for deputies they promised to pay.
Private sector jobs aren’t there, but make we fund the free ride.
This is tipacal and they wont to do this before the other commissioners are sworne in what a rip off , they need to figuier what it cost us to go to work and do what we half to do and then up the price for some one to ride that bus WE DON’T NEED ANY MORE TAXES……
To “sick and tired”
We taxpayers pay for something everybody; including you. Just because you do not like how a specific set of dollars are being spent, does not exlcude you from being a benefactor.
When considering the ridership or seats filled per destination, PT is a very high cost burden on all taxpayers — including those who ride. Most of the buses are less than half full or half empty when in service.
In a way, I actually like this kind of tax. The 47% pays the tax as well as the 53%.
Just saying. :-/
Just change the rules so that a taxi can accept an EBT card and shut down ECAT. Problem Solved!!!
No,No,NO make them pay to ride. I have to buy my gas for my vehicle pay for tags and pay my car insurance. Stop taking money out of our pockets and giving it to someone else. Let them pay their own way or find their own way. Just put a stop to the public transit bus.
I see both sides but believe we are being set-up. The commissioners throw out the 4 cent tax increase and then “compromise” to a 2 cent tax increase.
How can you expect us taxpayers to pay for something for others…You want to punish us who are able to afford the little bit of gas to get us where we need to go for those who are being transported either to town to shop or to work, Those are the ones that need to pay more, we especially in the North End of the county have to drive numerous miles to get groceries and to go to work. I am sick and tired of working for others who want a hand out BUT that is what we are now a country of “what can you do for me” instead of getting up and working for what you have.
This is a perfect example of rob from the have somes, to give to the have nots. Lets do a little MATH
I Googled “Gas stations in Escambia County Florida” It came up with 271 known stations. If each station had 75 people fill up their average of 15 gal cars, I know this high for some stations, but very low for others, that would equal 271×75x15= 304875 gallons. 304875x.04= $12195 dollars! $12195 x 365 days in a year is 4.45 million dollars. Now I know these are just guess as number of people who buy 15 gallons a day, but you can see the numbers are just staggering for just a “measly” 4 cents a gallon TAX. Figure it out with out taxing us. DO MORE WITH LESS. We all have had to do it, all except local, state, fed governments.
Wow, looks like there are some star-struck Obama fan-boys on the County Commission.
Just one more example of the productive class footing the bill for the parasites. Unfortunately, this is going to get worse, not better…
This is one reason we have higher unemployment rates in Escambia County.
Escambia County has one of the highest County taxes in Florida. This is not how to get businesses to move into Escambia County.
Florida also has higher gas taxes than most states in America. We currently pay 35.7% taxes on every gallon of tax we buy in Florida. This does not include Escambia Counties current gas tax levy.
http://www.floridastategasprices.com/tax_info.aspx
1st there’s OBAMA making me PAY for CABLE & CELL PHONES for people who choose NOT to work and LIVE OFF THE GOVERMENT…Now this BU%%S@$T move by the County Commissioners…I will be at the meeting voice how wrong this is and I will also make sure that I TELL EVERYONE I KNOW TO VOTE OUT ALL THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS!!!!
I say fill up the “Bus” before coming to the trough to ask for more tax money at the pumps. Are you county commissioners complete idiots!! I don’t want to pay any amount of money to have empty buses riding the streets or highways!! With “This” county hurting economically how can you even think of asking for more taxes.
This is a very bad idea ! But what else should we expect from these cronies? This burden should not be born by the 99% that don’t ever use this service! Raise the fares to those who use the service, if that won’t pay for it SHUT IT DOWN. Taxes like this should be brought to a vote of the PEOPLE not assessed by a group of CRONIES. Luckly we do heve elections so we can get rid of them..
I’ve said it before…if you don’t like what they are doing, go to the meetings and tell them. Vote them out. Make your voices heard.
i am with the rest i will buy gas somewhere eles,,,, keep it up escambia you will be the one that loses out .just saying
See what your votes can get you!
I pay for my gas to go to a40hr a week job. Ecat is not in my area and I don’t see them coming out here any time soon.Raise the price for the ride not on my gas!!
The vote by the CC shows just how they respect the tax payers. And two faced wilson robertson shows his true colors AFTER the dumb voters returned this jerk to office.
And these are the idiots that YOU voted back into office.
Pay to RIDE! This is bumpkus!
I can understand everyone’s frustration over this, but when I was in college, ECAT was the ONLY way I was able to get to school – even with a job and scholarship money, I simply could not afford a taxi, and my parents were never able to help me with a car. From personal experience, I know MANY, MANY people who were only able to hold down jobs because of the bus system. Take the bus system away, and you take away people’s livelihoods. Take that away, and you deal a blow to the economy. I urge everyone to be empathetic, and try to occupy another’s shoes for a moment. There may be a time when YOU rely on the bus for transportation.
Terrible idea. This is why we have elections. Either this ecat mess pays for itself or do away withi it.
Until they make bus routs so we can all ride, this is a horrible idea. Why should I have to foot the cost of higher fuel cost for something I can’t even use? Let the riders pay the extra cost. Not those of us who aren’t close enough to a bus route to ride.
If the ecat is not paying its own way, either raise the price to ride or shut it down. Just like citizens insurance, either be self supporting or go away. We, the tax payers are being taxed to death for the few!!!!!
How interesting,,,Can you imagine why they waited until AFTER the election to propose this? Didn’t wait very long either, did they?
If it passes just drive a couple extra miles and buy gas in Santa Rosa..
This is a load of bunk, do the commisioners not realize we are already feeling way to much pain at the pump STOP THE MADNESS and let me off. I’m with ya Ben, they have rode this free horse to death,
Let ECAT riders pay this. It’s a slap in the face to the majority of us who don’t even use it to consider making us pay. I was impressed with Young till now. I’m tired of paying someone elses bills. Commissioners…..”Did you’ll understand that??!!”.