Latest Headlines
- ECUA Considering Water, Sewer And Sanitation Rate Increases
- Highway 4, Highway 168 Bridges Across North Escambia Remain Closed. Here’s An Update.
- Two-Time Super Bowl Champ Inspires Local Youth Athletes (With Photo Gallery)
- Century Woman Charged With Meth Possession After Traffic Stop
- For Escambia, Alabama, Deputy Charge With Federal Civil Rights Violation
- FWC Law Enforcement Report: Snapper Size, Gopher Tortoises
- These Are This Week’s Road Construction Trouble Spots
- Drone Show Wows Sellout Crowd in 5-1 Wahoos Loss
- Costco Nine Mile Road Plans Set For Development Review Meeting
- Applications Still Open For Pine Beetle Assistance And Prevention Program
Flomaton Police Chief Target Of Criminal Investigation, Resigns
August 8, 2012
Flomaton Police Chief Daniel Thompson is under criminal investigation and has resigned. Over the past three years, Flomaton has been unable to keep a police chief more than a few months…with Thompson the second chief to be the target of a state law enforcement agency.
Thompson submitted a letter of resignation Monday, citing “personal reasons”, according to Flomaton Mayor Dewey Bondurant.
On Tuesday, the top investigative law enforcement agency in Alabama announced that they are investigating Thompson.
“At the request of the Escambia County District Attorney, Stephen M. Billy, the Alabama Bureau of Investigation (ABI) is conducting a criminal investigation involving Flomaton Police Chief Daniel Thompson. Upon completion, the findings of the ABI’s investigation will be turned over to District Attorney Billy,” said Sgt. Steve Jarrett of the Alabama Department of Public Safety, the agency that includes the Alabama Bureau of Investigation. Details about the investigation have not been released.
The Flomaton Town Council held a special meeting Tuesday evening, quickly going into executive session and discussing Thompson behind closed doors as allowed under Alabama law when discussing the “good name and character” of an employee. About five minutes later, the council returned to session.
“I need a motion that we accept his resignation,” Bondurant said. The council unanimously approved a motion to accept the resignation. No interim chief was named.
Thompson was not present at Tuesday’s meeting, and attempts to contact him were unsuccessful.
Thompson was promoted to chief in early March after the Flomaton Town Council fired then chief Geoffery McGraw after his arrest. McGraw was in court Tuesday morning, accused of kidnapping for arresting a man across the state line in Florida. Read more…
McGraw, a former investigator for the 21st Judicial Drug Task Force, was named police chief in late January 2011. He replaced former chief Katarius Jenkins. Bondurant claimed that Jenkins quit, but Jenkins said Bondurant fired him in November 2010. Bondurant asked the town council to officially fire Jenkins, but the council would not do so.
Terri Tolbert resigned as Flomaton police chief in May 2010. She had been hired to replace Tim Hardage who was released during a six month probationary position. Hardage was hired in February 2009.
Mike Lambert had previously served as Flomaton’s chief before being hired as chief deputy for the Escambia County (Ala.) Sheriff’s Office, a position that he still holds.
Pictured top: The Flomaton Town Council voted Tuesday evening to accept the resignation of Police Chief Daniel Thompson, who is the subject of a state criminal investigation. Pictured inset: Residents discuss the resignation outside the town hall following a brief special council meeting. NorthEscambia.com photos, click to enlarge.
Comments
68 Responses to “Flomaton Police Chief Target Of Criminal Investigation, Resigns”
Flomaton is a great place to live and if anyone dont realize that, they are missing out on enjoying all the perks this area has to offer. I am saddend to see how people seem to like to blame issues on anyone that they choose even if they did not cause the issue . The previous postings seem like people are making this a mayorial issue. How convenient!!! When this is really a story of an individual (police chief) that made a mistake! He who is without sin, cast the first stone. The ex-chief will be held accountable for his actions if the law finds reason. As for blaming this situation on the mayor, both mayorial candidates are good people and did not cause this to happen. Vote for whoever you want to vote for, just stop all of this unnecessay bashing of good people.
GET DEWEY BONDURANT OUT AND FLOMATON WOULD NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM!!!! HE IS A JOKE
Missgrits, the ABI said criminal investigation, not personal.
People are saying he is having some personal issues. I understand that, because we all do. And, for some reason, I hope everything works out in the end. But even law enforcement cannot hide from sweet, ruthless Karma. That is what this is. And if any of the press follows through with the rest of this story, or makes extra effort in investgating, alot of folks will realize that this is exactly what is going on. What goes around, comes around, forever.
To debby thompson:
We as mother’s stand behind our children and that is good. Mr. Thompson worked for the Town of Flomaton so that made him a public figure and everything he did, good or bad had a good chance of getting to be public.
Police officers have a dangerous job and most of the time they are not appreciated for what they do, but it seemed that Mr. Thompson was, so this has made people feel sad and hurt. If he was not your son you too would be hurt and saddened, and would wonder why why why…………
I think we all need to stop glorying in DT problems and lift him and his family in prayer , he is not the first and will not be the last to let man down but he also prob feels he let himself down but this to shall pass, he is a good person , and very professional , he did have a good response time the times i had to call the last few years, He is human not God he is the only perfect one but one a ending note I do feel the house needs to be clean,,, time for a change ,, starting with Mayor sorry Bondurant , I think you should bow out gracefully before the mud startys slinging,, in your direction
It seems to me the problems in our town start at the top and work their way down from there. How much is enough Flomaton has turned into a joke and a really good punchline, but we can change that very easily it is called a vote. Just one can make the difference!
Its sad that a month ago Brookes (Daniel) Thompson was a hero to many, he makes 1 mistake and many forget all the good things he has done. As hard as it has sometimes been for him, he has always owned up to his shortcomings without excuses. He IS a good, sensitive person and I have become physically ill reading some of the comments from some very unforgiving, unappreciative citizens. Perhaps thats why you people can’t keep a chiel of police in your great town. He has bragged about this town to me too many times to count and to turn against his is a disgusting shame. Oh, for the record, I am his mother whom is very, very proud of the man he has become, despite his shortcomings!!
u start at the top when u lose as many employees as flomaton has in any buissness !!!u start at the top!u will find ur problem!!
In response to “how can you run a government of law without law enforcement?”
Easily…ask Century or Jay or Pollard or Chumuckla..I could go on and on. These citys are making out just fine without a “one horse police station”. The crimes in these citys are truthfully probably not near as bad as it is in Flomaton because the deputies do more of a job than just stopping out of town motorist coming through town. The problem you run into when you have these small mayberry style police departments, and no discredit to the officers that work there, is that the politics control who gets a ticket and whi doesn’t. With deputies it will not matter if the mayor or council wants to drop a ticket or not..if they break the law they pay!
Are you kidding me? Here it is again…Town of Flomaton all over the news. I was born and raise in Flomaton, went to school and raised my children there. That was until you couldn’t even look out your back door without everybody in town talking about what you were doing. Flomaton is a joke and I am embarrassed for anyone to know that I use to live there. As for as the Mayor and City Council goes, I think everyone of them should be voted out and all new ones voted in. Clemente for mayor!!! You’ve got to be kidding me!!! Although voting Bondurant out would probably be the best thing for the town but to put another one just as bad in would be a huge mistake. The same council members that were there when I lived in Flomaton 15 years ago are still sitting there…and that’s just what their doing…SITTING…trying to look important…I remember when Robert Graves(RIP) was the chief in Flomaton…You didn’t have all this crap going on…Flomaton needs another Chief like Robert and a Mayor like Leon Holt!!! Then you would have something!!!
Flomaton need a whole new council and mayor,neither of the two running for mayor will make a change, they are both poison apples from a different tree. How can you run a government of law with out law enforcement. They both want to cut fundings with the police department To fund the library!! Butch Lee will be a great council and hoping mayor in Flomaton one day!!
In response to Chad. I may not be well educated but it does not take a rocket scientist to see that while driving only 100 feet across the state line for tax free groceries, many people still choose to go to Brewton to shop for their food. While even though its tax free in Florida, the prices are marked so high that its still cheaper to go to Brewton Walmart or spend the has to drive to Pensacola. A town cant grow and employ people if no jobs are available. The comment by the way was simply at the fact that Flomaton is a dead town that cant grow nor allow job opportunities to those jobless! Instead of building more auto parts, put money in to something that will help the town grow.
How did Flomaton get mixed up with Dewey Bondurant? If he is so poor a Mayor how does he stay in office? Why not just simply vote him out?
“QUOTE by: wow
on August 9th, 2012 3:05 am
Flomaton is a joke! There’s plenty of drugs, wrecks, stealing, & violence, but yet not one grocery store?? ”
You’re comment, while correct about the grocery store, shows a little bit of your ignorance. A grocery store in Flomaton CANNOT survive because of the taxes in Alabama. There are no taxes on food in Florida so with a grocery store 100 ft over the state line, people are not gonna just choose to pay state taxes when a cheaper option is available so close.
Mayor Bondurant called Flomaton a one horse police force, and this is a quote from WEAR 3 NEWS, “I’m hurt real bad because we can’t seem to put anything into place and make it work for Flomaton, and Flomaton needs this one horse police force,” said Boundurant.
Sad, Sad, Sad.
Flomaton is a joke. All the cops there are under the age of 30 and think they’re God’s gift to the Earth. The state needs to take over and clean house. Other than their Chief’s getting fired,resigning,or getting arrested; the only think I read about them doing is busting some pot smoking teenagers, or busting the local barber for selling porno’s. lol Get these clowns out of here.
Flomaton is a joke! There’s plenty of drugs, wrecks, stealing, & violence, but yet not one grocery store?? Drugs get passed out like candy and known drug dealers drive around with suspended license and nothing is ever done.Everything in the town revolves around a name and if you don’t have the correct name then you’re of no importance. Cops that are hired in should be from out of area! And there should be a pay cut in the mayor and cheifs paycheck and be a raise for the poor men working in the heat on the road crew,the utility workers,and they employees who have been working for The Town of Flomaton for years!
Putting us on the map again!
I have a small say. Flomaton has been for years a town where politics played a major roll. Yes there are clicks everywhere, but it seems that every time you read the paper, there are discussions on the bugets. They always seem to center around the police and the fire departments. There are other departments, including the street department. On any given day you can ride through town and see the same 2 or 3 people busting there tails. I am not here to say I have the answers to the problems, but it really seems the mayor and counsil have there own issues. Like the old saying goes if you can not help yourself how do you plan on helping anyone else.
On my last note, please if you have the time to reply to any articals, at least have the fortitude to include your name, and not some fake I.D.
I have known Daniel since his days with the Escambia County S.O. He was and has been one of the most professional people I have had a chance to be around. Believe me, as a past volunteer fireman in the county for more than 10 years I have seen my share. He was always considerent to anyone he came into contact with. I don’t really know the circumstances of his resignations other than what has been reported, but first off if it is true we should not be trowing him under any buses. I’m sure if we looked in a mirror there would be a bus heading for us. No I am not a citizen of Flomaton, but as a 1992 graduate of Flomaton High School, I feel like
funny funny…lol…
The Flomaton PD, they were flyin high three days ago and now they are all back of the bus.
I have to wonder, after reading some of the comments, how in the world did Dewey Bondurant get elected Mayor in the first place? He seems so very unloved by many?
some want to do away with fpd and just hire more escambia county officers to patrol flomaton. the way i see it you cant really get the county officers to do much good either. i had a problem a couple of days ago and called the sheriffs office and they told me that they had an officer on the way. well needless to say the officer i needed out here never showed and when i called back to the dept to find out what was going on. i was told it wasnt their problem to deal with. you have some good and some bad . but you start with the main problem … the mayor…..its bad when you have someone running for a city position just for publicity for a company rather then the citizens.
I think Det. Jernigan should take over! He’s a christian man who know’s the job! and would do a great job for the community and the department….He’s also had Plenty of Experience and could handle the roll between trying to comprehend the political bull crap all police officers have to put up with and still try to do their jobs with professionalism and courtesy to the public…I think there is only 1 officer still there that has been there for awhile! All the others are knew and are doing a great job! You can’t judge all of them because of one! some of them have good ethics and morals!
I think this is just another incident that show’s Flomaton has went to Hell in a Hand Basket…… I am Honestly embarrassed to say that I grew up in Flomaton, it’s sad when my parents live less then 10 minutes away from the PD and they have someone trying to break in their shed and it takes them almost 45 mins to show up because they are sitting at the Tom Thumb, and the only reason I know that is because right after we called the PD I left and when I passed by he was standing by his car talking, so turned around and went back and he didnt show up until 30 mins later….. Flomaton is sooo worried about making a name for themselves that they are taking the wrong approach, the only attention that they are getting is “BAD” attention. Back when I was growing up in Flomaton, you never had any of this crap going on and maybe Clemente would bring the kind of change that Flomaton needs….. I know if I was still living in Flomaton I would vote for him….. And maybe if the officers in Flomaton were more worried about doing their jobs instead of running around it might be a better town to live in….. PATHETIC IS THE ONLY WORD THAT COMES TO MIND!!!!
I hate that Flomaton is getting such a bad rap for all of this, I’m sure their are plenty of good people that live in the town. I’ve read some comments say that the Sheriff’s Office should take over, but from what I understand that’s NEVER going to happen. First off, the deputy’s can’t enforce city laws like noise, lorttering, etc. Second, the county residense PAY for deputy’s through taxs, something city residents don’t do. Even if the City Council decided to let the Sheriff’s dept take over, something tells me that Grover Smith is way too smart to try to crawl into that hornets nest. I seriously doubt they would want to take on that liabilty as well.
To flomaton resident:
This is just another example of the Mayor doing Mayor Business at “his” business. I agree with you and the interview should have been at City Hall. Maybe this is showing the voters of Flomaton that “their” Mayor is more interested in Century than in Flomaton.
As I was eating lunch today in Century, FL…..the Flomaton Mayor Dewey Bondurant, who is running again, was being interviewed by all of the news stations. One of the stations was filming the outside of Bondurant Hardware…..Why is the mayor of Flomaton not at the City Hall in Flomaton being interviewed??? Is this free publicity for the mayor??? I think the whole town needs a change and maybe Flomaton could grow and have a police department with a chief….It is rather embarassing when you say that you live in Flomaton and people laugh about the situations up here….it is time for a CHANGE and stop allowing the mayor free attention!
Bondo….assuming this is short for Bondurant or something of the sort….of course in that case you would say that Clemente is not for the PD. In fact, I and several others of the community have ourselves made a special trip just to talk to him about this matter…which we were told first hand that he is for the PD!! I am sure just like anyone else,he is just not for all the bull crap that goes on in this community and how our “upper hands” handle situations…..
I cant stand Flomaton this being one of the reasons. If Im just a regular citizen knows there is drugs being sold just doors down from the police station, but nothing is done It makes you wonder why some are getting away with it and there are others that are being stopped and searched and then a big story hits the newspaper. If they realy wanted to clean up the town they would get rid of the local drugs also. But that little town is filled wit nothing but drama and they cant do their job cause they cant get away from it. They need to start over with mayor and police officers. Clean up the town so its not a embarrassment. I think that McGraw thing was worthless tax money being spent. It was like it was not a mile, if you wanted the guy gone you should have got something good onhim. And im really interested to know what this chief did that was so bad. But its always something in that town.
don’t know what the problem is with the chief position in flomaton. in my opinion the mayor and council do the best they can with the funds available. you get what you pay for. well qualified people won’t stay because bigger towns pay more. do folks in flomaton want higher taxes to get their pd up to par?
well one had it right when flomation officers stop being “super cops” and calm down everthing be fine thats the problem. stop stopping ever car for drugs and just patrol the small town.
What, specifically, is he being investigated for?
What’s the salary and experience requirements of the Flomaton Police Chief position?
Please pray for mister Thompson!!!in jesus name!!!
I don’t live any where near Flomaton,AL anymore, and sad to say this made me laugh out loud with “NOT AGAIN!” Something needs to be done so that there is a good, honorable, police chief in charge. A small town reputation is going to be hard to restore if this keeps happening. Laughable, but sad.
When I started policing in 1972, I was warned by old hands to avoid small town jobs at all cost;especially, the chief’s job. As a retired state officer I cant attest to their wisdom.
It is getting time to vote for Mayor. Vote Bondurant OUT and things will probably get better. How many times over the years have you saw Flomaton police cars parked at Bonduran’ts Hardware? Were they shopping on company time or do they have to go into Florida to see the Mayor?
Lisa
I agree with everything u said except for the last part. Clemente is not for the PD he wants to shut it down. Good luck with the SO.
Flomaton had one of the best and he got away. I say that if you can’t get mike lambert back then find someone with the experience and knowledge like him. That’s what made him a great leader. He was not fresh out of the academy and knew what he was doing. He set a high standard.
STOP ALREADY!!! what in the world is wrong with the police department in Flomaton?? This situation makes your town look like something right out of a bad and stupid movie…no need to buy a ticket…just pick up your local paper every week and there it is…do you have any idea the damage that all this has done…no honest and dependable person would want to touch a job with your department..the powers that be need to sit down and figure out exactly what is wrong with this picture and fix it or you resign and let someone with more sense than you do fix it…what ever happened to Mayberry? I vote for Barney for chief!!
Everyone is saying…get rid of the Flomaton PD,why do this?Think about it,we have a bad government,so do we get rid of it too?
For instance,we buy a bag of apples or potatos and we have a bad one in the bag,do we throw out the whole bag and never buy them again??? NO,we get rid of the bad ones and continue to buy them over and over again!!we have bad people that work in stores,hair salons,ect…so do we just get rid of the establishment because those people are just bad people…no we dont, others need the job and are good upstanding people,so we keep the establishment…. The whole police department is NOT BAD,the whole community is NOT BAD….We have criminals and people who are guilty and do wrong in the community that want to get rid of the PD, but when they have a problem themselves,the PD just cant get to them fast enough!!
So why get rid of the PD when there are several good,GREAT officers that are honest and trustworthy,why take away their job because of a few bad apples??!!!
If this is this case,we should of gotten rid of it over 24 years ago when my police officer husband and his buddy tried to kill me snd put my best friend in a wheel chair for the rest of his life!! guess what…2 bad apples didnt take away the PD and I sure did not want it too!
Think before you speak,it is a small town and you do need the protection,try calling the sheriffs office for a problem…i bet it takes more then 45 minutes for them to get to you!!! trust me,i have already had to do this!! and on the ending note….VOTE FOR CLEMENTE!!!
They dont say “criminal” investigation for nothing. For all you people that thing, oh that man was so nice, and oh you need to give this guy some slack he was so sweet. Well let me tell you something, everything is not what it seams. They dont say “criminal” investigation for nothing. Just because they were nice to you one time does not mean that they are the nicest person in the world. Some people are nice on the outside and deviant in the middle, just sayin…
I’m tired of living in a town where all we are known for is our corrupt police officers. Most people are scared to even drive through flomaton for fear of being arrested and drugs planted in their cars or something… I’m tired of all these barney phifes running the show, put andy griffith back in charge!!!
bring back TONTO MCGHEE!
Your only as good as the people you work for is what I say.. The only chief that we all know the reason they are gone is mcgraw. Why are we going through so many chiefs in such a short time? Someone needs to step up to the plate and handle business, isnt it obvious that there is something wrong here?
Wth? Nothing screams avoid a town like being in the newspaper repeatedly for bad ethics and corruption! I say we pay Mike Lambert to come back and return the city to a great community again.
The primary problem in Flomaton is the government. Election time is just around the corner. Vote for Clemente for Mayor and Butch Lee for the Council (District 1, I think it is). Clemente is a good man, and has been involved as a councilman for some time. Butch has over 20 years of Law Enforcement experience, including as Chief of FPD. Give these gentleman their opportunity. They can’t be any worse than the ones in there now. . . . Might even be better!
Only way to get the police dept correct is to hire a chief that knows how to do his job, not push for front line news but the facts. I have seen news from here that arrest was made for 1 to 3 marijuana seeds in a floor board of a vehicle. Now thats just wanting to be in the paper. So sad They Lost Terri Tolbert as chief, She was fair and honest.
An old saying that I hear a lot. If you don’t do anything wrong then you don’t have anything to worry about.
Easy fix, contract with Escambia County Alabama for Police services, just as many others locally have done with their respective Counties. (Century with Escambia Florida, and Jay with Santa Rosa). This has worked well for many years, and is probably more cost effective as well, not to mention that you have some seasoned leadership in the County systems. There comes a time to move forward, and it seems to be the perfect opportunity for Flomaton.
Small town politics seems to be the baddest of them all. This is what happens when someone stays in office too long. Term limits should be implemented from the bottom of the barrel all the way to the top. All the politicians scope is set for four more years, and you get more of the same ole thing. Brings to mind a quotation I have heard goes like this”If you always do what you have always done You will always have what you have always got.” That my friend is “0″.
I think eeyore is onto something!
As someone who personally was harassed multiple times by Flomaton cops for “looking suspicious”, I think it’s time for a change. Looking suspicious meant pulling into the gas station in a nice car and getting a gatorade. I have never been in trouble a day in my life, and I have a Masters Degree from very well known university and getting stopped for absolutely no reason is just unacceptable. THIS is the reason that you see so many big drug stops etc in Flomaton, with people from other areas coming through on their way to other places. The issue is, that not everyone who has a nice vehicle and is an ethnic minority sells drugs.
I had a relative who worked for the fpd years ago and he told me stories of shady stuff they use to do there. It sounds crazy, and this was years ago, but he told me that several officers would take drugs with them and “mysteriously” find them in peoples cars. Just saying! Way to go ABI….
When shady stuff is going on, it EVENTUALLY rises to the top and the Chief is the position that catches a lot of it. When you are unfair / shady / untruthful – you have to tell a lie. Once you have told a lie, you usually have to tell another lie to cover that one up. After many years, your lies seem to come back around and get you!
ABI rocks…. Investigate them all, and get a whole new dept. who is from other areas and are racially diverse – or shut it down and add more sheriffs… Just my 2 cents.
The problem is not the police officers.. it’s the mayor!! Election time is upon us.. Vote his tail out!! Thompson was the best chief this town has had since Mike Lambert!
If the Cheif would just went to Bondurant and told him he had a promble it wouldnt of been so bad on him and his family, i know his wife has got to be hurting. for something she didnt do…… Thompson was a good officer just had prombles and didnt let his boss know it ! BUT its a shame his boss didnt Resign he is nothing but a crook!!!!
hahaha wow! Hollywood needs to get to Flomaton and start filming, this is better than NCIS, CSI, LAw & Order SVU, and so on. Flomaton has turned out to be the epitome of a corrupt backwater Alabama town.
If the citizens look back in the past and can remember the employees tha t used to work there and got fired for no reason including public works employees. Maybe its not just the employees that mess things up maybe its the clown that thinks he has done a good deed for this town and fires people for no reason at all, not even consulting the council until after the fact. Now sure am glad somebody has finally stepped up and is running against him. You got my vote.
All I’ve got to say is that they need to bring McGraw back. Nobody is perfect but he always helped me out if I ever needed something….regardless of what it was. He was a great chief but was overwhelmed trying to do his job. He crossed the Florida line. Now he’s facing up to 5 years in prison. The whole situation just makes me sick. I do pray that everything will be alright for him. Just keep him in your prayers.
Nice black eye for Flomaton.
Well as a former employee of Flomaton PD I think it’s time that the state comes in and takes over the department. I worked with all of the chiefs above except McGraw and all I can say is that all of the chiefs were great chiefs except for one or two. Thompson was and still is a good person and officer. Seems to me that the problem has nothing to do with the department but more the city council and Mayor. I just wish the rumors about Thompson would stop! He has a family and career to take care of and no one really knows what is going in with him. If he has a problem then I hope he is getting the help he needs. But he does not deserve to have his name turned into mud!
WOW! okay, well we all can assume that within a police department there are undoubtably several individuals that are “bad apples” but come on! how many police chiefs has flomaton had the past few years… they can’t all be terrible at their job?!?! Sounds like there is another opposing force keeping them from doing their job correctly. Probably a bunch of OLD pencil pushers who do not know the first thing about being a cop!.
I dont understand…seems like the FPD officers do such a good job…until they are promoted to chief…sad story for the hometown cops…who is next?
I don’t live in Flomaton, but maybe it is time for citizens to hold your city government accountable for making bad hiring decisions?
Is there anyone who can step into this department and settle things down so the department can begin regaining the respect and dignity it should have? Or, maybe it is time to disband it and contract to the Sheriff’s department?
Just wondering….
So Flomaton will be featured on the new crime drama?
When criminals make CHIEF!
Just bad for the town and its officers.
Why not just disincorporate, no police chief, no mayor, no problems.
Surely the county seat of Brewton can provide Sheriffs coverage for the area.
Droppen like flys
you know its sad when the one town you cant even ride through after dark without being harrassed for nothing sure cant seem to keep there officers out of trouble.
…well, it might be a good idea to start hiring people who are not from there? and stop hiring the same type of person…just with different names?