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Weapons Investigation Turned Over To Federal ATF; Guns Seized
April 26, 2012
[Updated 2:15 p.m.] The vehicle stopped yesterday in Flomaton, Ala., with an arsenal of weapons was stopped again Wednesday morning on New Warrington Road, about a mile from Warrington Middle School — the destination two men in the vehicle gave officers late Wednesday afternoon. But this time, the men drove away without their weapons.
The Escambia County Sheriff’s Office stopped the Chevrolet Suburban this morning before 9 a.m. Once weapons were located in the vehicle, the investigation was turned over to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), according to Sgt. Mike Ward, spokesperson for the Escambia County Sheriff’s Office.
ATF reportedly seized all of the weapons from the two men, including multiple firearms and ammunition. No charges were filed against the men; they were release by ATF.
For more on Wednesday’s traffic stop in Flomaton, click here.
Pictured: A white Chevrolet Suburban found to have an cache of weapons and ammunition stopped yesterday in Flomaton, Ala., was stopped this morning on New Warrington Road by the Escambia County (Fla.) Sheriff’s Office and the investigation turned over to the ATF. Photos by Joe Douglas, WEAR, for NorthEscambia.com click to enlarge.
Comments
68 Responses to “Weapons Investigation Turned Over To Federal ATF; Guns Seized”
“They were the ones who claimed to be taking an arsenal to a school”
Perhaps you should re-read the articles on this. When read in their entirety, William’s words on this subject never once say these guns were headed TO school. If the men had told the officers that they had intended to take the weapons into school grounds you can rest assured we would have seen a completely different story than we are seeing today and there would not have been one single person defending these men.
Not trying to be mean here, I am merely trying to educate. You may have read the words posted by myself and others in the comments section, but you have completely failed to comprehend the ideas behind them. The one thing that stands out, no matter which side of the discussion anyone has taken is that the men’s story is fishy. That fact was never in dispute, especially when confirmed by the superintendent that these men were, in fact, not employed by the school. No-one here is defending their STORY; we are defending the men’s rights. You know, the whole “innocent until proven guilty” thing?
Another question: why is it that 4 weapons between 2 people and hundreds of rounds of ammunition are “suspicious?” I, along with many many many more people in this area, have more than 4 guns and many hundreds of rounds of ammunition. (Remember what someone else said: ammunition is standard in boxes of 50, so it only takes 4 boxes to be considered “hundreds” of rounds.) Does that make us suspicious as well?
I agree that there was or is something very strange or misleading about the situation as a whole. I’m willing to even step out and stereotype these guys. Warrington Middle is predominantly black, with FCAT testing going on this week, the claim of tutoring students, the guys stopped being black, the situation in Stanford, Chicago politicians, and etc I would assume its much bigger than appears to be. It could be a bulling scheme, a civil rights scheme, or even some type or undercover sting or investigation by anyone of the too many federal agencies.
I am shocked at everyone who seems to defend these guys. I understand everyone has the right to bear arms, but not to a school. They were the ones who claimed to be taking an arsenal to a school (which is a crime) and lied to the cops about their purpose. They created this situation by lying to the cops and having a suspicious amount of weapons in their vehicle. If they were taking these guns to a school, no matter what their intentions were, they were confessing to a crime. If I tell a cop I am going to murder someone later, should they let me walk away?? I haven’t done anything so why would they arrest me? I have children in the schools that these cops are protecting and I back them 1000%. I am sorry that these guys were inconvenienced but they should not have entered our school district with an arsenal, claiming that they were contracted by the school and heading that way. You cannot take chances with our children!! …No matter who gets inconvenienced. Thank you ECSO and everyone else who made the decision to not sit on this!
we may never know what these guys from new jersey was up to, but one thing can be said if they were planning something this morning it didn’t take place. good job on our law enforcement,
I do not even live in FL/AL and when I read the first story it made me cringe, and the second one makes me wonder what is going on – why would they name the school one day, and then be in the vicinity the next. Something is very wrong even if the guns are very legal. Please law enforcement keep our teachers and students safe.
Truth is this is not even a story worth reporting. This is a prime example of the media reporting just enough information to cause one to speculate or assume the worst. A couple hundred rounds of ammunition is nothing, most handgun ammo is sold by 50 rounds a box. When ordering ammunition from a supplier there are huge price breaks when ordering thousands of rounds. I currently have four firearms in my truck and hundreds of rounds of ammunition. I have my CCW, 2 handguns that I bought from two co-workers this week, and my Ruger 10/22 that my daughter was just shooting . .22 ammunition is sold at most hardware stores, Wat-Mart, and other retailers in 500 round boxes. Articles like this one causes panic and false impressions about the individuals involved. Some of you so called americans have suggested these guys rights be violated because of a very poorly article. The same thing just took place in Stanford, Florida, just the information to cause an uproar was reported.
How can you take legal weapons from people and release them and let them drive off. No crime committed. LAW ENFORCEMENT IS A JOKE.
Hope William follows this story….I bet next week theres a lawsuit filed!
For those so upset about these people being released yesterday — there did not appear to be enough PC to hold them or arrest them from what has been reported. Could it be today they were close enough to a school to be able to impound the guns? LEO have to work within the law even if others do not. They did not have the cash from yesterday today—hope they left it in a hotel room and the house keeper will be able to have a great time.
Without specific crimes, the word lynch keeps coming to mind. Yes, their activity is suspicious and worth watching carefully but the idea that they should be jailed simply because we are suspicious and they didn’t get our permission is unseemly.
LYNCH: murder for supposed crime: to seize somebody believed to have committed a crime and put him or her to death immediately and without trial, usually by hanging
In this case, there isn’t even a supposed crime yet. True, you don’t want to wait until they’ve shot up the fine school but you really don’t want a government which says, “Because you have the equipment to commit rape, we’re going to arrest you under the suspicion of intent.”
David for leaving men with their equipment
until intent to commit crimes is indicated
“tomorrow when they have entered the middle school and shot and killed some students, then come tell me how much you like due process”
Next week when the FBI raids your house, terrifies your family, and throws you in jail for an indefinite amount of time for baseless accusations, then come tell me how much you wish due process existed.
You people crack me up. Half using good common sense and the other right wing extremist babbling on and on about gun rights. You people have so much hate built up about gun rights and how the government is taking away this and that you scare me more than Islamic terrorist. According to the FBI’s latest theory, their more concerned with the recent surge in right wing, pro gun fanatics, more so than international threats. Now I see why. I own guns myself. We hunt, we target shoot for sport and so on. I also carry one in my car. Get that ONE, not numerous, nor do I carry HUNDREDS of rounds of ammo, nor do I carry stinking handcuffs and brass knuckles. More than that, I don’t ride around claiming to work for a company that I’m actually not employed at and carrying 84 crisp $100 bills. There is definitley more to this story, but I’m not sure what concerns me more, the story or the comments. So much anger and bitterness towards gun rights. Hey, I’m all for the Second Amendment, but just because I get to own and carry arms doesn’t cloud my judgement, nor does it make me angry when the ATF confiscates numerous weapons from individuals who have already lied to the law enforcement. I’m actually shocked to see so many people on here talking about how they carry three weapons in their car and usually carry $1000 on them in cash. That’s either a lie or your living in fear. Carrying three guns, really, that’s absurbed. You only have two hands. Are you planning on taking down an army or something. Sometimes I think this country is heading for another civil war.
“SO HOW CAN WHAT WAS FIRST REPORTED TO BE AN IMPROPER LANE CHANGE BE SUFFICIENT TO SEARCH A VEHICLE?”
I’m not sure if it’s law without a CCW permit to inform the officer that there are weapons in the vehicle if they are not on your person, but I know it would be common courtesy. If it is the law, then chances are they were forthcoming about the fact that they were carrying; since they were allowed to leave.
When faced with people carrying firearms, it is officer safety to isolate the firearm, legal or not, from the people in the car. Legally possessing a firearm doesn’t constitute a mandatory search, but I can assure you that you will be asked if you will CONSENT to a search. If these guys had nothing to hide and knew their stuff was in order, they most likely consented to the search to speed the process up. Just because a search takes place doesn’t mean the people getting searched were forced into it. There are some people who will willingly give up their 4th Amendment rights or who will be coerced into believing they have no choice but to consent to a search. Not at all saying the officers here tried to coerce them into consenting, but it has been known to happen.
I blame CSI, Law and Order, and Criminal Minds for all the blatant ignorance on display here. The justice system on TV is fake, folks.
I think the cops were just being “better safe than sorry”. Maybe they wanted to run the serial numbers – or do ballistics to see if they had been used in any crime – or, maybe they know something more about the guys than they’re telling us right now and suspect they wanted to sell the guns on the streets or do a little b&e on the side while visiting Pensacola.
Maybe in the towns they’ve ‘helped’ before there are some unsolved b&es. If they aren’t compensated for their work – they have to make a living somehow…
Wonder if they had a permit to carry a concealed weapon? I don’t believe they were going to the school and shoot it up – what would be their motive?
So if I travel with guns in my car because I’m going shooting it’s against the law?
Why would u ever need handcuffs? they sound like they were planning on robbing some drug dealers or collect on a drug debt or something. brass knuckles, all black clothing, handcuffs, extended clips and tasers sounds like they were gearing up for something! i own more than several guns and i would not feel the need to travel with all of them.
SO HOW CAN WHAT WAS FIRST REPORTED TO BE AN IMPROPER LANE CHANGE BE SUFFICIENT TO SEARCH A VEHICLE?
@atlesdude – tomorrow when they have entered the middle school and shot and killed some students, then come tell me how much you like due process…they are riding around with guns…not a few, a CACHE of weapons and a lot of cash…you idiots can go on and on about how a business owner has cash, the point is THEY ARE NOT BUSINESS OWNERS…if you don’t think this is out of line, yes, you are an idiot…
If I read it correctly, the Feds just confiscated legal firearms. That’s what’s scary!
You know , this does seem like some thing AG Eric holder would do, the way they ran guns to mexico, And as big a anti-gunner as you can be, would not put it pass them, Really, this story has to many ?????????in it.
Who cares if they were a mile from a school? Hell– When are you NOT a mile from a school, especially in a city? I live a half mile from one, and ALWAYS have a firearm and extra magazine in my car, every time. Is that suspicious? NO. People get worked up over nothing. There is NO crime here. No reasonable suspicion of a crime. No arrests are warranted, in fact, I don’t see how ATF can even confiscate legally owned property without a crime.. This is stupid.
If I’m not mistaken, I can carry my firearm with whatever color/type of clothes I want to as long as I am in no direct violation of the law. Last time I checked, it might be SUSPICIOUS to have weapons and black clothes, ski masks, etc… but it is most certainly not ILLEGAL. I am not saying, and never have said these guys were harmless and pose no threat whatsoever, all I have said is that you cannot base your assumptions of the law on what you THINK these guys might do or be involved in. That is not what this country is about. These guys should be treated just like everyone else; innocent until proven guilty! That is what our court system is supposed to be, so why is the general public’s mentality the complete opposite?
I say this in complete ignorance of the finer details of what is going on, but there must have been SOME justification to seize the guns if they were legally owned. If there was no justification for the seizure, there are more important issues being thrown in our faces yet we are too blind to see them! While we sit here bickering about the 2nd Amendment and why these guys did nothing wrong, it is highly probable that yet another amendment was torn to shambles. Amendment #4: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated.
Some on the comments on here are so ridiculous they are comical! Yes, their story/situation is highly suspicious and odd. Could they have malicious intent? Probably. But if no crime has been committed (that they can be linked to), what would you like them arrested for? Being black and having suspicious activity? The case has been turned over to the ATF so how about a little faith in our law enforcement and let them do their jobs.
Will be interesting to hear why the weapons were siezed today and not yesterday.
ATF testing the ballistics on them to clear them of use in a crime maybe ?
lane violation? I expected a routine stop for no TAG LIGHT!!!! they would of held them longer for that offense. two men with guns, stirctly legal! Two men with guns, headed to do some free toutoring at any school is alot suspicious!!! I personally dont want people on my childs campus with weapons in the back hatch. Shame on FPD, should have made some correct calls to someone and checked out the story. would of been a great bust for them. instead they’ll just write a NO TAG LIGHT citation to some poor local driver who sits in his car behind the steering wheel, not on the back bumber looking for a tiny little light to go out.
How were all the weapon’s seized when just yesterday they were all owned legally? There is a lot more to this story than we know and that is probobally for investigative purpose’s. Keep an eye on this one folk’s it ain’t over.
@atmoredude – I’m with you, if the laws get in our way, lets just make up our own and screw that whole ‘due process’ thing… geeze, are people really this stupid?
I will join the paranoia…………….
These two are on a secret Eric Holder/Homeland Security black ops excercise to determine the operational awareness and readyness level of local law enforcement.
Once they are detained, interegated and released because no laws broken, they continue on. In the mean time Homeland Security monitors local law enforcement resource allocation moves that are then directed to monitor said individuals while in their jurisdiction.
After all, the guys are young and have military haircuts, a brand new $50k truck, newly minted $100 bills, legal guns, everything legal.
So… Did they find anything different?
I can’t believe someone would ask if the serial numbers on these guns were run? Do you personally think out local police are that stupid that, they wouldn’t run the serial numbers as soon as the guns were found? These comments make me laugh sometimes when people type as they think.
So after two Sheriff’s agencies, a drug dog and the feds via the ATF have cleared these guys after 5 or 6 hours of detainment…………………………….
WHAT CHARGES WOULD YOU ALL HAVE THEM ARRESTED ON ?
I thought this was America? In America we have the 2nd Amendment, and as long as you are not commiting a crime with your weapon be it gun or other. It should be legal for you to have what ever weapon you want. This is another stunt by our over-bearing law officials to demonize the posession of a fiream. When this country was founded we had a constitution. Now Uncle Sam can tell you what kind of gun, how many bullets, and where you can have it. George Washington would be outraged. You should be outraged that these people are being harrassed for practicing their 2nd Amendment without committing any violent act. We can’t charge people with “pre-crime”. The government isn’t Tom Cruise and this isn’t Minority Report.
“Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have… a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge, I mean the characters and conduct of their rulers.” -John Adams
people are you not aware of what has been going on in the world today with all the school shootings. I’m a gun owner and i don’t want anyones rights taken away, but something just isn’t right with this. They could have been detained till their story checked out with the tutoring company they said they worked for. because first of all you do not go on any school grounds with a firearm unless u are the law. another thing why would you have all black clothing and a mask with the firearms in your possession thats just asking for trouble. If you are legal then you have nothing to hide. It seems everybody has their own opinion on this but if they’re innocent then they should understand the cocern and know you don’t take guns to a school . also that much money in 100 dollar bills must be well funded because they said it was free tutoring. Ok now a 2nd stop, looks like they’re late for class O thats right the school they said they were going to knew nothing about a tutoring class.
I think Police do not want to help with this, they won’t arrest or do anything of that matter until it is too late like always. Sometimes I wonder if we are competing with Mobile , Alabama. Come on do ya’lls jobs protect the kids at least. The big deal is these guys are going to local schools, who cares about the firearms? Well whether you have license to carry them or not , SCHOOLS ZERO TOLERANCE with WEAPONS AND DRUGS .. so are they allowed to bring them to schools for “tutoring”?
Glad to see people exercising constitutional rights!!! It doesnt matter what people think they MAY do with those EVIL guns….if they haven’t broken any laws ….stop treating them like criminals . Sounds like someone is getting harassed for no reason .
One word folks, CONSTITUTION! Read it! IDIOTS
ATF agents let them go.
They probably bought those guns from the ATF in the first place…Operation Fast and Studious.”
So what I see here are people wanting the police to arrest someone because they were legally carrying a firearm. WTH. You are advocating for the police to make up charges against someone. You all disgust me. I hope someday the police arrest you for something you “might” be thinking of doing.
“I know a ton of people are going to disagree with this, but they should have let them cross school property. They would at least have something to arrest them on. It looks like they’ve been following them anyway, so we know that all the children would be safe since our LEO would not even give them the chance to get out of their car. I’m not saying let them go into the school, I’m just saying let them drive their vehicle over the threshold to be considered school property & there is your reson to arrest them.”
I agree. Since they couldn’t find probable cause to take the guys into custody, allow the men to create it. As you said, LEO is obviously watching them like a hawk, let them make their move and then swoop in before any damage is done.
Their story is more than likely a cover for something, but the point I was trying to get across is that you can’t just crucify people for the SUSPICION of something. Might as well throw our Constitution out the window if you want to revert to that, then everyone will be a suspect of something.
If you put all the information together about what the “tutors” said their intentions are, it almost sounds like these two men are in the weapons selling business and they may be going to sell a bunch of guns and ammo to a teacher or a student at this high school for God knows what. I mean, the police found $8,400 in cash with a boat load of guns and ammo all of which they claim the proper permits and license issued were correct. Maybe these two men are paid by our government to go to a school and pull off a staged false flag attack on our schools to use against the 2nd amendment like the Fast and Furious program that Att General Eric Holder was in charge of.
Who knows……. Glad our fine law enforcement officers are keeping close tabs on the situation though
Read the Constitution before calling your local law enforcement idiots, and have some knowledge of state and local laws before you get your burning stakes and pitchforks. “Feeling” safe is just that… a feeling. Entrusting government with the power to arrest law abiding citizens sounds more outlandish than anything else I’ve read here today.
I would suggest you go back and search that vehicle again and this time you make
sure you find something. We cannot have those people running around here like
that.
I find it very interesting that so many of you are willing to violate the rights of someone else. When there has been no crime commited as it was stated both times in the two different articles. It is not a crime to have money or guns or ammo! I have concerns about what they may have had in mind as well but I am not going to convit someone just because they had these items. To do so is to violate their 2nd amendment rights. If that is allowed then your rights are gone. Just throw out all the work our forefathers did for us. Geez people wake up! The police did the right thing by letting them go there was no violations or they would not have let them go about their business. I actually wonder what the probable cause for the stop on the second timewaqs. There was no mention of the cause that I could see.
Just saying careful what you ask for. It could come back and bit you in the form of loosing your rights.
I know a ton of people are going to disagree with this, but they should have let them cross school property. They would at least have something to arrest them on. It looks like they’ve been following them anyway, so we know that all the children would be safe since our LEO would not even give them the chance to get out of their car. I’m not saying let them go into the school, I’m just saying let them drive their vehicle over the threshold to be considered school property & there is your reson to arrest them.
I think the point most are upset ab is, the fact that they said they were “tutors” and were headed to W. Middle. Yes, you can legally carry registered weapons, but why its needed in route to simply tutor some children is the big question. .Maybe its nothing, but when our kids could poss be in danger, yes, we will freak out!!
Allowed to leave once again??? What is it going to take to realize that these guys are more than likely up to no good… Wonder if any of these serial numbers on the guns were even run… Could be stolen or used to commit another crime elsewhere… Something’s just not adding up… Please be careful out there people!
Did you guys even read the story yesterday? Why are you so worked up about this? Is it because they were black and LEGALLY were in possession of those weapons? Do you think they forged their permits to own those guns? Did you even read the story?
I understand people are scared for the children, but come on! You are afraid of some guys who own things which are LEGAL TO OWN?!? Why don’t we just go ahead and throw our Constitution in the trash and set it on fire? That is pretty much what you people are talking about with all this “They should have been arrested yesterday” stuff.
@bullwinkle- yes, everyone need to relax. These two may be guilty of something, but if we arrest everyone who may be guilty of something,who’s going to mind the jail? because we would all be behind bars. Last time I checked, nobody is completely innocent.
Up to no good but hey less than 10K on u is no crime. Carrying a arsenal is no crime. It’s what u do with it is the issue just a wait and see approach. Bet they fabricated a story to hide real intentions…….. Just stay away from my sons school.
Nope not headed to school, I’ve been to school earlier today when I dropped my daughter off. You guys are missing the point here, they had done nothing wrong st the point when stopped. Firearms are not required to be registered, you can carry as many needed in your vehicle. It does sound kind fishy but no laws were broken.
Wonderful. No arrest. That’s good. Hope they r able to find these two men after someone is hurt or the school full of KIDS is shot up.
Everyone relax..
Isn’t giving a false statement to law enforcement a crime? The superintendent already established their story was bogus.
Perfectly legal to carry/transport weapons across any state line as long as their in a locked case and not loaded. Some states do not allow hand guns if my memory serves me correct, but long guns are no prolem.
The problem here is you cant take any on school grounds. Also why do you need a bag of money and ski masks to protect yourself? This just doesn’t sound right.
I agree with Willis. This could be me or any number of my friends who have their own business. People who carry cash, especially large amounts, tend to also carry for protection. What would people have thought if my dad and i were pulled over a couple of years ago on our way to North Carolina to hunt with my cousins. We were hunting deer and black bear. We had 7 or 8 guns plus ammo, duffle bags with full camo gear and ice chests.Rifles, shotguns, and pistols, plus enough ammo for 2 weeks of hunting. Would we have been arrested, our property seized, and humiliated in public? For exercising our God given rights?
No person shall carry a pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person, except on his land, in his own home or fixed place of business, without a license.
This is Alabama law.
If they had what they needed for the guns, Alabama couldn’t hold them for that. They couldn’t find another reason to hold them so they HAD to let them go. In Florida, they could have had the guns without the license. At least this was checked and there will be a record of the stops. One of the problems at this point is they’re lying about the relationship with the schools. Esc. Co. will have fun with this one and if there’s a story to be found, hopefully it will be.
@Willis – are you headed toward a school right now?? If so, please give us your location so we can have you arrested too…geeze, are people really this stupid?
Charge them with what? Violate their rights how? How bout we just shoot people in the head that are supicious
It is the same vehicle, I saw them stopped on the overpass going from Flomaton into Century, there were 2u Flomaton cops and 2 Florida cops stopped too. Had everything out if the back if it on the ground
….why were they let go with the guns? That’s very suspicious!
@ James Ford…..Why would the vehicle have been impounded? There is nothing in the first or second article here on North Escambia that would indicate the occupants in the vehicle did anything wrong? The original article said all the firearms were checked and appeared to belong to the occupants. It is not against the law for someone to have a hand gun or multiple hand guns in their vehicle. I have 4 in mine as I type. I would agree that it seems odd having all the cash and guns but, that’s me every payday.
If it is the same vehicle , and the same men, First question Why did you lied to law enforcement about your contract with school system?And how come they know nothing about you coming? These two need to be watched closer. than a fishing cork.Better safe than sorry,
Just curious as to why vehicle was not impounded if carrying weapons and was able to enter Florida?
Don’t make the same mistake again as you did yesterday arrest them and charge them this time!!! I’m loosing trust in this town!! I mean really we are molested at airports and everything else, but you will let two men go with a car full of guns,ammo and black clothing!! When they told you yesterday where they were headed!!!!!!!!! I DONT FEEL SAFE ANYMORE!!!!!!!
NO EXCUSE…these idiots should never have been let go…what on earth are they thinking…IDIOTS!!
Hope they arrest these men before someone gets hurt!
Very glad something is being done to make sure kids are not harmed. But still, if they are truly innocent and their story is true that they gave, I hate they are getting it so bad. But again, if they are mentors as they say – they will take this in stride and be glad the police departments are just taking precautionary measures. Just ashame our times have come to being so untrustworthy and having to carry an arsenal around just to go thru some neighborhoods.
If they were stopped yesterday WTH are they doing running around today. Are the authorities waiting for them to do a “Columbine” ???? Good grief people.