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Police, Fire Officials Blast Pension Bills
February 19, 2011
Police and fire union representatives filled a Senate workshop Friday to criticize a pair of bills dramatically overhauling public pensions in Florida, a key cost-saving plan pushed by Gov. Rick Scott and top lawmakers.
A couple dozen speakers generally blasted the legislation by Sen. Jeremy Ring, D-Margate, whose Governmental Oversight and Accountability Committee rolled out the legislation (SB 1128, 1130) earlier this week.
Friday’s four-hour hearing was designed to gauge opinion of the measures. It was clearly divided, with union officials blasting the proposals and city commission representatives mostly endorsing Ring’s approach.
“I don’t think anyone can say we’re rushing this process through,” Ring said. “This is a critical issue.”
Under the legislation, new employees in both the Florida Retirement System and local pension plans would be required to join 401(k)-style investment plans, with the legislation clearly aimed at phasing-out traditional pension plans.
Base salary – no overtime or other compensation – would be used to determine an employee’s pension benefits under both city and state plans. The legislation affecting the FRS (SB 1130) also would require a still-to-be determined contribution from the plan’s 655,000 government employees, ending full state payments which have endured since 1974.
Ring acknowledged that not having a contribution level set, “creates a lot of angst.” But he said the contribution rate will be determined later – when the state budget is compiled and lawmakers look to close a more than $3.6 billion budget hole.
Scott has proposed a 5-percent employee contribution, which would save $1.3 billion.
But Steve Clelland, representing the Orlando Professional Firefighters union, told the Senate panel that lawmakers should not be revamping the standards for pension agreements negotiated with local governments.
“These are local plans,” Clelland said. “But if you do this, city officials will stand back and say `we didn’t do that – they did, the Legislature.’ But if collective bargaining still exists in Florida, I’m not sure you can even do that.”
Most of the union representatives urged lawmakers to leave local pensions alone, although Ring said financial obligations faced by cities was reaching a crisis.
“Every city is not in crisis,” said Jim Tolley, lobbyist for the Florida Professional Firefighters Association. “Some are in good shape.”
Kissimmee Mayor Jim Swan told the committee cities generally support help with easing pension benefits, but want to assure, “flexibility is given for us to negotiate pension benefits.”
The legislation eases requirements on municipalities that dollars accumulated under the insurance premium tax be used solely to cover enhanced pension benefits, a provision sought by the Florida League of Cities. Instead, the bill (SB 1128) lets cities deploy this money to ease liabilities in current pension plans.
Comments
21 Responses to “Police, Fire Officials Blast Pension Bills”
■Everett
You said it right on…now a days people are still trying to live where they were living (outside their means) along time ago but with everything the way it is we all have to make some sacrifices. I contribute to my own 401K plan I can’t do as much as I want but it is taken from my check not the states. I also have to pay for my health insurance out of my pay check…nothing is given to me I have to work for what I get and not expect anyone else to pay for my ride throught LIFE, people in Florida should think the same way.
Nice post David Hule Green. You hit it right on the head.
Not to worry though. In the next 30 years the chinese will be the new super power. China holds a large percentage of America’s debt. The chinese school kids are 10 times ahead of ours in reading, math, and science. Our grandkids will be immigrating to china to open american food resturaunts as the chinese are doing now.
I work in the private sector. I pay 35% in taxes each pay period. (9% of that goes to heath care premiums) I still manage to put aside 14% of my gross pay in a retirement fund. The company matches up to a certain percent. I don’t live beyond my means. I have less than $200.00 a month credit card charges that are paid off every month. I clip coupons for groceries that I buy for a week at a time. I drive a six year old compact car that gets 30 mpg. I don’t have any expensive habits like tobacco and alcohol. I don’t have the boat, two cars, and a plasma screen tv either. If I don’t have the money to buy it, I don’t buy it.
There is a trap most folks fall into once they obtain a state or government job. They get vested in the system. They get a credit card, max it out. They get another card to pay off the first card. They get a house with a variable interest rate. They buy a boat. Then they buy a truck to pull the boat. Now they have a family, a house, car, truck, and boat payment. Not to mention the additonal credit cards to buy the boat accessories and the plasma screen TV, computer, ipod, cell phones and all the electric toys they can’t live without. Next thing you know there is more going out than coming in to the bank each month. I have two friends that have fallen into this trap. They stuggle but are working their way out of the mess.
State and government employment has an advantage in employment security once you are vested. It’s up to the individual employee’s self disipline on how wisely they use the compensation they receive from that job.
I am a State Employee, 20 yrs, I get paid far less then someone in my position in the private sector.. and why, because of the benefits – that is the main reason why I have stayed working for the State – that is the reason most of us have stayed. I recently worked for two years at a part-time job working for a local department store here in Pensacola – cashiering, I was making only .50 cents less at the Dept. store than what I make with the State…and I had stock options, sick leave, annual leave and could contribue to 401k – not to mention the possibility for raises. And for those who think we all are just rolling in the dough working for the State, I have been promoted twice and still I make the salary of a cashier. At my agency there are two positions titles lower than mine, making less than me (with my dept that is about 30 positions – making between $17,000 to $25,000. The average salary for a State employee is $35,000…No we are not getting rich or rolling in the dough working for the State, we are dedicated and hard working individuals who are struggling to make a living for our families just like everyone else.
Why is it that when the economy gets bad everyone always turns their anger and resentment toward Government workers. We are YOU….. we are your neighbors, your relatives, your friends, We serve the public for good or bad because we like what we do, knowing that we are doing a good job and serving a purpose. If these bills pass, I will barely have enough to buy food… and if they make us pay for our health insurance, I can almost guarantee that several ‘hundred thousand’ employees throghout the state, this includes county and cities workers (because many are on the same system of retirement and insurance as State employees) will be without health insurance and many, if not most of us will end up on State Assitance…or flooding the Emergency Rooms because we cant afford to pay for a doctor. You may say, “why dont you just go and get another job” easier said than done… Im 50 yrs old, its too late for me to start saving when I was depending on my state retirement (besides my salary was never enough to allow me to save). If I had been at a job all these years making more money and putting toward a 401k, I would have nothing to say… Besides, I can bet that most all of you making passing judgements on us State, City and County workers are making way more than I do and most of us do who are civil servants…..many of you are probably already reitred or work for a company who pays you well…… so tell me how many of you are making less than $30,000 and supporting a family, and now put yourself in our shoes and think how you would feel at facing the prospect of your employee cutting your salary by 15%….because between making us contribute 5% toward our Retirement and another 10 to 12% for our health insurance …. that means someone making $30,000 now would only make $26,000 a year. And you think we State employees have it great…
Does anybody know who are among the highest paid state employees in Florida? Just look at your head football coaches, basketball coaches, and athletic directors at the University of Florida, FSU, UCF, and USF. Yeah Florida is in a crisis, so lets cut public safety and lets just ignore these state employees, some of whom are making millions. I have to ask, is the financial crisis not worth looking at these people. Are football records more important than public safety?
I’m told that educators are the ones who have the largest retirement in the every-day line of individuals but I think the FF and Law Enf. should have no less pension that the educators do. I worked for many years at a company that we were told we had an iron-clad retirement but that didn’t happen when they “went under”. Now I am working at another place for the last 20-plus years where you don’t have a retirement unless you save under a individual 401-K program so this world as our state is going ‘crazy” and you all better be saving,saving,saving yourself and don’t bank on SS because I’m afraid it’s “out the door” . I don’t know what the State of Fla Teacher Association has going but in Alabama you will be retiring with a “fat” retirement.
Most people do not mind paying their taxes as long as they are not abused on some pet project as David pointed out. I think we all realize we need to pay a certain amount of taxes or we would not have the service’s we now receive. And, in side of that people have to get paid and they need to be able to retire as well. Some do not stop to think that those who work for our service organizations are also tax payers and that they also pay into a pension system on top of that just like every else does in the public sector. I for one do not mind paying for what I get as long as I get what I paid for. I just wish the politicians would quit throwing our hard earned dollars away.
I try
I gotta say,David, that I always enjoy reading your comments whether I agree with them or not. They are nearly always well reasoned and balanced.
In this case I agree with most of what you say about taxes. I honestly think that a base rate and kill all deductions may well be the fairest way to go but ain’t nobody gonna really support that (and I know that’s not what you said). As you related on, we all want to cut spending on “them” and not “us”. At the same time we want taxes to be cut for “us”, not necessarily “them”.
I happen to be in my fifties and have worked most of my life. I have paid income,property and sales taxes most of my life. But I never had children. Is it fair for me to pay taxes to send other people’s kids to school.
Well….yes.
Why? Because it is for the greater good of the nation, if the money is well spent. When it’s not (in my opinion) well spent, I gnash my teeth. But I understand that not every dollar is gonna be spent the way I want it to. For example, I would never have anted up to build a single boat ramp. But I know others are in favor of those types of expenditures. So, that’s the thing about taxes. We are never gonna agree about everything.
But maybe it would help us all to remember that. I don’t intend to rant and rave and foam at the mouth about the school taxes or the boat ramps. Maybe we should all look at what we get that others don’t want to pay for.
Of course the true bottom line at the moment *is* the bottom line. We have no money. And we are so far in the hole that it’s no longer about “us” or “them”. My mother, who lives on Social Security security, recently said to me….”we are all gonna have to take a 10%hit, even those Wall Street guys”. Pretty good wisdom for an 80 year old. I mean, we are gonna have to get past “who” gets cut and acknowledge that “all” are gonna have to be cut.
Nice post, Mr Green.Thanks for giving me something worth commenting on.
REGARDING:
“the more I make, the more taxes I pay. Is that fair? Why can’t I keep what I have worked to earn?”
If you made nothing, you would want to pay nothing.
If you made more than nothing, you would pay something, which is more than you paid when you made less.
Generally people consider it unfair if they go from paying 10% while earning a low income to paying 20% for a higher income to whatever it maxes out at. I don’t consider it fair.
I do tend to think taxes aren’t inherently unfair if they pay for the common good. It’s when they pay for pet projects, for things I think we shouldn’t do in the first place, things which I consider harmful to the American people that I get less happy about my lovely taxes.
It’s an interesting part of human nature that every group thinks the other groups are shafting them. The poorest think the richest should have to pay more because they have more. The richest think they use the same roads so shouldn’t have to pay more of what they worked for to provide what others use as much or even more.
The poor think they shouldn’t have to pay for airports and high speed rails since they can’t afford to use them. The rich think they shouldn’t have to pay for assorted social services since they don’t use them.
David in a world of unsatisfied people
seeking perfection in vain
Sad so many jealous folk’s out there we get a retirement from the state so get over it or next time they hire get off your butt and get you one OK enough said.
FYI: As an employee of the FLDOC, We do not get overtime. We are not authorized overtime. If we are required to work an extended workday, then we must be flexed off at some point during the same work week to prevent accruing any overtime hours. We are not allowed to work in excess of 80 hours in a two week pay period.
If it becomes mandated that we must contribute toward our pension, then let’s be reasonable about it. How about a pay raise that is well overdue and how about overtime with pay to offset the cost of the contribution. We already don’t make enough money. And for those of you that seem to think that we make too much and just sit around and do nothing come to work with us. Heck, everybody likes free money right? Maybe you should try doing our job before you criticize so quickly.
A year from now you won’t be able to find a person in the state who will admit to voting for Scottie. He’s only doing what people said they wanted,
So does the end justify the means.
I like what Mark said.
So no raise and more taxes? How’s that government taxation thing working? I have made myself more marketable by increasing my education and pursuing opportunities; however, the more I make, the more taxes I pay. Is that fair? Why can’t I keep what I have worked to earn? If you can’t afford what you are living on, then 1) decrease your expenses, or 2) increase your income…simple.
Fair level of compensation? No contribution; full retirement? To whom is that fair?
Top dogs have more than enough to live on? By whose standard is that?
Social Security is not contributory?
I’m against more taxes for any reason. I believe in smaller government in every way. I’m willing to make sacrifices; I already have. I expect to make more. I don’t need the government to take care of my every personal need.
First of all firefighters and policemen pay taxes too, so the therefore they are contributing to their pensions as well as the pensions of other state employees and local goverment employees.
Second: Some pensions require the FF or police officers to contribute a % of their income to their retirement, and they don’t take out social security which means they won’t get it.
Third: Just like many of americans FF and police officers have been laid off or have had thier pay cut in the last 5 years. How many politicans have cut thier pay? or doctors or lawyers or bank CEOs. Go to your local mechanic shop and find out what the labor rate is to work on your car. $75.00 an hour? Fire fighters and police officers are not greedy. Like many hard working americans they belive in an honest days work for an honest days pay.
Fourth: The life span of a Fire fighter or police officer is 5 to 10 years less than the average person, so how long to they acually get to retire for before their gone.
Can there be changes in the retirement system that will help the enconomy, I’m sure there can be, but lets not put all of it on the backs of the fire fighters and police officers. Start at the top then work our way down.
While I empathize with Teachers, Law Enforcement and Firefighters, I believe it’s time to take a look at all public labor agreements. Our economy nationwide is facing some uncertain economic difficult times. These public servants certainly deserve a “fair” level of compensation, but at the same time, it must be fair. Upgrading anyone’s pension based on overtime worked is seriously flawed. Pensions should be based on base salary. Compensation for overtime has already been paid. You fellow citizens voted for a governor with a questionable past, now you are reaping what you sow.
I think what stirs anger is that the “top dogs” get top dollar, when they have MORE than enough to live on, whereas those who get barel enough, or not enough to live on keep footing the bill for the wealthy and the poor.
I agree. I haven’t gotten a COLA allowance in 3 years, but they keep taking out more taxes each of these 3 years. Is that right?
Sounds good to me.Most people don’t have a pension plan at all,other than hoping social security will still be there.So if you’re going to recieve a pension other than social security ,then you should contribute to it.I’m paying tax that goes toward YOUR pension,but I don’t have one….GREEDY PEOPLE
I contribute to my retirement as I am sure many of you do. Why should police and firemen be any different?
NW Floridians unanimously voted for this conservative republican and he is doing what was asked….balancing the budget, so stop complaining!
Fiscal conservatism seems like a great idea until it’s your pocket they are digging in huh……
The taxpayer can’t afford to keep going the way things have gone in the past.
What is so wrong with employees helping fund their own retirement?