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Florida Bans Fox Pens; Last Was In Walnut Hill
September 2, 2010
The Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission voted Wednesday to permanently ban all fox pens, like the one formerly located in Walnut Hill.
The rule approved by the FWC permanently prohibits the chasing of foxes and coyotes with dogs within an enclosure in Florida. The FWC had considered the issue for more than a year, and the practice was temporarily prohibited in February. At that time, the FWC ordered the Shady Oaks Fox Pen at 4000 South Highway 99 in Walnut Hill to cease any operations. The FWC did not accuse Shady Oaks — the last legal fox pen in Florida –or its owners of any wrongdoing.
There were as many as six state permitted fox pens in Florida in 2009, but all had closed by the end of the year except for the approximately 200 acre Shady Oaks Fox Pen in Walnut Hill. At one time, there were about 50 fox and coyote pens from the Panhandle to Central Florida.
In a prepared statement, The Humane Society of the United States praised the unanimous decision by the FWC banning what the group termed a “cruel practice”.
“We thank Chairman Rodney Barreto and the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commissioners for their decisive leadership and thorough work to end the inherently cruel practice of fox penning that has no place in the 21st century,” said Jennifer Hobgood, Florida state director for The Humane Society of the United States.
“This is not about taking away hunting opportunities,” said FWC Chairman Rodney Barreto. “I’m a big believer in fair chase, and I have a list of places where hunters can still engage in those activities.”
“Coyotes and certain other nonprotected furbearers can still be taken year-round using several methods, including dogs,” Maj. Curtis Brown, head of the FWC’s Captive Wildlife and Investigations Section, said. “This can occur on open private lands and in specific wildlife management areas.”
Public input on the recommendation to permanently prohibit the enclosures varied from stating that “the prohibition preserves the true sportsmanship that hunting is all about” to saying that “legitimate fox and coyote hunters have been misrepresented on the issue”.
“This is not a referendum on hunting – we are a pro-hunting commission,” FWC Commissioner Brian Yablonski said Wednesday. “It is a question of fair chase and protecting the essence of hunting.”
Deliberations over this issue began last September, when Commissioners directed the agency’s law enforcement staff to review the permitting process and research the history and numbers of fox/coyote enclosures in the state.
At the February meeting, commissioners agreed to temporarily prohibit the practice. FWC staff was directed to work with stakeholders to address certain issues of concern regarding the enclosures and to draft proposed rules for the Commission’s consideration.
Pictured: A fence surrounds the former Shady Oaks Fox Pen on South Highway 99 near Walnut Hill. NorthEscambia.com file photos, click to enlarge.
Comments
40 Responses to “Florida Bans Fox Pens; Last Was In Walnut Hill”
FWC, what a joke… They continue to show their ignorance. There are a few good apples in the bunch but overall just trash. Duck hunting,deer hunting and now fox running. What else can you screw up in florida. We are a joke to many states. Florida hunting is now run by human society propaganda and peta. I too grew up chasing fox in pens on a number of sat nights as a teen. I never seen a fox killed. I am not saying it never happend. I never herd or seen of it. They had plenty of hidding areas free from dogs. Could a dog stumble across a fox, I could imagine. Come on, if you eat meat, sit on a leather couch, wear leather shoes, use tooth paste. You are involved in taking of true innocent animals life in wich I have loved, raised and slaughterd for your guiltless convienience. How can we sit back and loose our god given rights.
Most of these comments seem to come from misguided information. This is a bloodsport and has absolutely in no way resembles traditional hunting. Foxes and coyotes ae trapped and thrown into penned unfamiliar and poorly unregulated environments. They become dependent on humans for dog good and later dogs are turned loose to chase them to exhaustion and rip them apart alive. These animals have little chance. They are attacked in the corner or the pen where they can no longer run. Packs of dogs pull them down by their hind legs while other attack them from the front. Frequently their legs are chewed off before they are killed. They are torn apart alive to the point of unrecognition. We have been training dogs for centuries by draging a scent – no live bait is needed.
Communities are endangered by these pens. I am sure my 80 year old mother and aunt’s hips and knees would ot allow them to get out of the way of a rabid escapee. They carry rabies and parvo virues. Can you imagine how stressed these animals are if they do get out? Pets would make a tasty little morsel, and heaven forbid a small child be approached in a schoolyard, their own yard or waiting for a bus.. I think permitting these pens was irresponsible legislation. They are banned in many states.
Fox penning encourages illegal interstate transport. September 1991 National Geographic cover shows an 18 wheeler filled with beautiful red foxes in route to SC from Ohio. It was the result of a six month undercover sting. SC does not have the manpower nor the money to regulate this activity. Of course, all the animals had to be killed to comply with interstate regulations.
Congratulation to the DNR in Florida for making the right stand! I wish SC’s DNR had the same power.
I am 61 years old and have hunted with dogs since I was 16 years old. I use to fox hunt free range 3-4 days a week. Over the years land got developed and the ability to run dogs after fox without crossing highways or running thru subdivisions became next to impossible. That is why fox pens were created, so we could run our dogs without disturbing the non hunters. The sport of running dogs has been made more and more difficult as more and more people that were not raised around it have moved to Florida. It is truely a shame.
I’m sure most people do not even know how fox hunting actually is done. First of all fox hunting is not acurate. It should be fox running, because the fox is not killed. No body wants the fox killed. If the dogs caught the fox, it would not be there to run the next time you went to run your dogs. I am sure that most your people that appose the fox pens do not realize these pens are usually about 200 ac’s. This is a case of ignorant people stopping things they know nothing about.
How is it okay, outside of an immediate threat to one’s own life, to murder any creature with sentience (any creature capable of suffering… of feeling pain and emotion)?
Alternatives exist to killing animals. They are practical alternatives.
If, in fact, might does make right – if this is truly the law that we have agreed to as human beings – let me know; I’ll defend these foxes and coyotes in person.
I think miss hillary hsus broke rule number “7″ Mr. webmaster! Now as an equal gesture for the hunters. I think the FWC should work for people they represent and move to have all the Dog Parks closed in Florida as they are places- where dogs with bad behavior
can attack other dogs with people being scratched or bitten trying to control their canine companion (Investigation Time!), unique strains of Rabies can be contacted, unique forms of parvo and distemper are there. It is also worth noting that wildlife bird droppings can promote diseases. BUT Let’s Get REAL! FWC you have just taken away another freedom to train and exercise our dogs. These hypocritic antagonisers are not through with YOU! What’s next? The outlawing of Hav-A-Hart Traps! You Bet! Do your research on these melting pot (peta-alf-elf-hsus) organizations that are robbing us of our rights and freedoms. So many people are mislead by their propaganda-the hunters in these pens with their dogs don’t want a kill at all. It is all about the spending of quality time with their friends, family, and most importantly their dogs. And now you have intervened where you shouldn’t have. What- A -Travesty ! It is time for people with good common sense to stand up say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!
Well said REF. I am a 30 year hunter and I have never seen a fox or coyote killed by a hound. It is a sad state when the attitude in our country is save the animals kill the babies. And a lot of the so called animal lovers, you will see them in the drive through at KFC. They think killing animals is O.K, if it soots their needs and someone else will do the dirty work for them. They would never kill a poor animal, but if you kill it and grill it they will eat. So lets break out the BBQ sauce so we all can get along.
Re: Barrineau – I’m not entirely clear on this,,, This pen has been closed for years and Tallahasse notified but someone somewhere never got the message. Let’s all just put it to rest and watch the people up here kill deer out of season. It’s time.
this is an outrage for a bunch of people that have never been inside a fox pen or even hunted in their life to cause such problems for landowners an people that enjoy the sport yes i said sport for you that dont know an just assume……Ive hunted all my life an most of was dog hunting with my dad. These pens where permitted by the state an visited often by FWC…The part that was left off about the pens is that there are escape routes an protections for the animals inside the pens so the dogs cant reach them nice of them to just conveniently leave that part out. The animals are not run seven days a week an its just a few nights a week by a limit of dogs figured by the state according to acreage of the pen..In the 30+ years ive dog hunted ive seen no fox or coyote in a fox pen or open land hunted to kill its for the chase an to hear your dogs run, an to get them in shape. This comission is a joke an the whole panel needs to be voted out so next time you cast your vote do some research find out where they come from an what they actually support not what they advertise i know its tough to sort out the bunch of liars but something we need to do…..An for the bunch of tree huggers if your so opposed to this buy the land from the fox pen owners an then you can take care of your precious little nuisance animals an when they show up in your neighborhoods eating your precious lil dogs or cats then maybe it will open your eyes…wake up florida protect your hunting an fishing rights against these worthless people…….
On the upside, you won’t have to jump through Federal hoops anymore, and you won’t have to pay them any extra taxes for tryin to run a business. It’s a good job these so called expert have decided that Florida can afford to put another business under and more people on the unemployment list. They don’t need taxpayers money to fund their frivilous lifestyles. Well done genius!! (yes, that was sarcasm)
Have you thought maybe opening up as a non-profit wildlife sanctuary where we can drive around and look at your wildlife? And learn more about local wildlife?
Just stop buying hunting permits and let the fwc get the money we spend from the tree huggers.By the way stop pushing thos cows in a pen and blowing thier brains out.
This is what makes America great – at least so far! Everyone has a different viewpoint and a different issue that ignites their interest, anger or activism. I hope all those espousing the rights of the unborn, child abuse, battered women, childhood disease research, etc. are putting their time and money where their well meaning hearts are. As for those concerned with private property rights and restrictions, many things occur on private property – the aforementioned child and woman abuse, dog fighting, meth labs. Should those be allowed for that reason? Just asking. If unwelcome “guests” come onto my property, I reckon I’d have to get creative on how to handle them. From what I’ve heard, most hunters don’t respond to polite requests to move along and dogs don’t read no trespass signs. I’ve had hunters ask to come on my property to retrieve wounded game; I appreciated that courtesy and welcomed them and, I’ve fed errant hunting dogs! I, too, dislike PETA and their self promoting methods. They might have started out well intentioned but they are too radical today. And, finally, my dogs have shitzus and toy poodles for breakfast while I’m out hugging a tree. Just kidding!
The commission hasn’t a clue about northwest fla, we don’t even have a rep on this commission………..they are from talley south…………….Give us to alabama please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m sorry I forgot the other purpose : “TO EAT”.
“God put animals on earth for our enjoyment ”
I believe animals serve a purpose, but they certainly are not here just for us to “enjoy”.
Hey Linda ,
Sorry I got into the chase late but I have a feeling you might be one of the first to scream trespass when the fair chase winded up on or crossing your property and scattering your livestock, or maybe your just a treehugger. The way I see it at least they knew where the chase as well as the pursuit would end up. Maybe your idea of a fair chase would be a couple of good walker dogs chasing your shitzoo, or toy poodle back into the house where you and him/her belong.
I think it’s pretty sad that our leaders can control every aspect of peoples lives. If a man wants to run fox in a pen, he should have that right. God put animals on earth for our enjoyment and we need to stop treating them like they are humans. People should just mind there own business and stop worrying about whether or not a fox is being run down by a dog in a pen. A fox pen is for getting your dogs in shape and not to kill the fox or coyote. The Humane Society is a JOKE, and was founded by a bunch of Atheist, if they had their way the animals would rule the world. If you don’t beleive me do your own research! P.E.T.A should stand for People Eating Tasty Animals. People, don’t support these organizations, spend your money on real things (humans). There are thousands of kids will life threatening illness, send your money to them. There are women getting battered by a man somewhere as i’m typing this comment, send your money to them.
Some of the comments on this forum appear to be directed as survival of the fittest. The dogs or dog owners are the supposedly strong and the foxes are the weak ones trapped in a fence with little chance or no chance of getting out or hiding from the predatory dogs. For someone to call dogs hunting foxes in a fenced in area is not hunting with any sort of ethics and is just plain ridiculous. Good job FWC!!!! Glad some posters on here can see this for what it really is!!
The FWC makes me sick to my stomach!!!!! Bring back the dogs.It gives the animals a greater sporting chance.Anyone that has ever done it will agree.
Linda, I absolutely agree with your 12:15 post.
Thank You!! Chairman Rodney Barreto and the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commissioners.
Just my thoughts, I apologize for not expressing myself better. I definitely do NOT think folks who hunt are ignorant – far from it. Don’t think I addressed intelligence at all!!! And, I don’t know your Grandfather; I am sure he fits in the honorable hunter category!!! I repeat: “I totally respect anyone who gets out in the woods and hunts honorably. Honorably being the key word. Family togetherness, tradition and respect for nature figure predominantly in my definition of honorable.” My grandfather and daddy hunted – honorably. If you’ve never seen a dog kill a fox that’s good – that also means the fox must have had a fighting chance – in open land and not in an enclosed area configured to the foxes’ disadvantage.
I’m not entirely clear on this , is this a place to train your dog , or is this a hunting club? I drive by this place at least 4 times a weak , and have never seen very much going on .
Linda…well said. I can’t understand the logic of others that feel it’s okay to put a fox in a fenced in area and then let dogs run and chase and kill it. I’m backing the FWC on this ruling and glad to see it happen. I can only hope there aren’t other fenced in areas we no nothing about where this kind of brutal sport hunting takes place still.
I fox hunted for over 13 years and never saw a fox killed by a dog. Saw several foxes and coyotes ran over by cars and trucks. I appreciate people like Linda who have never fox hunted but they like to know more than us ignorant hunters. However, my Grandfather is the most honorable person I know, and I do object to Linda calling him dishonorable.
Wow, Terri Sanders, interesting perspective. I don’t believe these pens were intended to allow hunters the simple pleasure of the “thrill of hearing dogs chasing a fox or coyote”. If they just want the thrill of hearing the chase, they could actually go hunting! Fox pens provided a place for “hunters” to allow their dogs the opportunity to chase down and eviscerate foxes with no avenue to escape and often too tired from frequent pursuits to elude the pack of dogs coming after them. And, betcha, there was some side wagering going on, too. “My dog’s better than your dog”. About as benign and courageous a pastime as dog fighting. If a fox or coyote kills hens or calves, that’s tragic, that’s also nature. And, that’s why they make guns – and donkeys to put out in the fields with the calves! It’s not nature to pen up an animal so others can chase and kill it. It’s not natural to hunt and kill animals penned up so as to make it easier on the hunter. And, goodness, how do you determine whether or not an animal has a soul and just how that relates to innocence or guilt?
What issues are important for the government to focus on? This WAS the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission, after all. Don’t think they are concerned with abortions. I object to the mindless boondoggles the government funds.. I object to tax dollars being spent on welfare which encourages people with no intention of ever getting a job to procreate time and again, living into perpetuity on my tax dollar and then passing that fine tradition down to the next generation.
Great men have said you can judge a nation by the way it treats its animals. If you consider putting an end to a cruel “sport” as a loss of your rights, that’s an odd view of rights – and wrongs , Or, maybe you were running dogs? While I wouldn’t do it myself (and, no, I’m not a liberal, Birkenstock wearing vegetarian!), I totally respect anyone who gets out in the woods and hunts honorably. Honorably being the key word. Family togetherness, tradition and respect for nature figure predominantly in my definition of honorable. Honorable is not killing something when its feeding on bait while the hunter sits comfortably a short distance away. It is not training dogs to chase something by turning them loose in a fenced, limited area dedicated for that purpose. It’s the dishonorable who are responsible for removing rights and placing more restrictions on the honorable. That’s my dollar’s worth of two cents.
I still want to know what this little beach vacation has cost us taxpayers.
My issue with this is more the fact that government is taking away more of our freedoms and we are over regulated. This is private land and the owners should have a right to do what they please on their own land. If this was a permitted practice in the past, what right does government have now to take that away from the landowner? We have reached a point that every little thing we do on our own land, we have to get permission from some county or state government office. This is our land that we pay taxes on and then we have to pay the government again if we want to do something as small as put up a barn or add a porch to our house. Government is out of control and people are letting them continue to take away all of our rights little by little.
Now they need to ban tree stands. There is no sport in dumping a bag of corn out on the ground or planting a deers favorite forage food and then climbing up a tree and shooting them when they come over to eat.
Oversight, have you ever hunted outside the state of Florida?….the cost of hunting in Florida is way better (if not the best) than most of the country.
Wow…. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at the responses here. Where is the challenge in running down a caged animal? Do you also toss dynamite in your pond to go fishing? Or maybe get fish in a barrel and shoot them? Hobble your deer in the backyard so you never have to leave the patio to “get the big one?”
If you want to hunt then man up and HUNT……
lol wow
The Florida Fish & Wildlife Commission did the responsible thing by banning fox penning. Fox and coyote pens first emerged in the early 1980’s and are not a traditional hunting activity. Hunters often defend their sport by emphasizing the importance of a quick, clean kill, but animals within a fox pen are typically chased by dogs seven days a week. Scored trials sometimes last for days, with as many as hundreds of dogs being released at one time and hours of competition each day. It’s also worth considering that these enclosures promote the spread of wildlife diseases, including the outbreak of unique rabies strains. Many thanks to the Commission for listening to the public and doing the right thing.
Political!!!
That’s what is was, political!
It was an order straight from the governor to the commission in an effort to obtain the endorsement of the Humane Society in his current campaign for US Senate.
First let me say I am an animal lover, also a hunter. I don’t hunt in this area, but in the area that I hunt dog hunters have a bad reputation. They are not welcome and landowners will not lease their land to them. There are so many times that dog hunters will just turn the animals loose to let them fend for themselves or starve to death when the season is over. They live on the side of the road and hope for someone to pick them up. I do know that there are respectable dog hunters and this not always the case but as always a few rotten apples always ruin the whole bushel. I am proud of the commission for closing this pen.
The Humane Society and the FWC got this issue wrong. Now when hunters try to run dogs on “allowed” land, the people who move into those areas will just get nastier about it…until there is no place left to legally dog hunt in Florida.
What about deer pens? Is that fair to pen up deer to hunt and kill with no where to run? We have these fenced deer pens all over Alabama to keep deer from roaming free. They say the deer belong to the state, so why do they allow them to be penned? Your deer dogs are next on the list by the way.
The commision has nothing better to do with the tax payers money? If we keep letting people take away our rights we will be in serious trouble.A woman can have an abortion ,kill a innocent life and it is perfectly legal? Hunters can’t enjoy the thrill of hearing dogs chasing a fox or coyote? For perhaps a hundred years or more fox hunting has been practiced (with penned animal or not) with much enjoyment. Innocent animals? Let a fox get in the hen housae or a coyote kill a new born calf.Are they innocent then? I am not sure how one can describe an animal as innocent or guilty if they have no soul. my 2 cents for today.I want the government to focus on more serious issues we have in America!
Oversight – Perhaps it was an “oversight” on your part that Penning is not hunting to begin with? We don’t need those games ruining what hunting is supposed to be about, and I for one can’t blame the public for becoming more against hunting when activities like this are going on. The FWC did hunting a favor calling a stop to this. Frankly reader, I don’t agree with dogs other than bird retrievers used on game animals either. If you aren’t going to eat what you kill, you aren’t hunting – you are recreating. WE need hunting to get back to the basics and ethics had better prevail or we have no one to blame but ourselves and state wildlife management for the battles we will continue to see.
Further, hunting is cheap considering all factors and compared to other “sports”. Conservation began on the framework of hunters paying for their own sport. Why should it be different now, when everything costs more. We are supposed to be respecting wildlife and lands, not coming up with ways to piss the public off and abuse prey animals for purely fun. I sure don’t want my taxes paying to watchdog that crap.
I agree with reader they have already cut out most all of the dog hunting for deer in florida and they are not going to stop until it is all banned. now if you want to run deer with dogs you have to go to alabama and pay outrageous prices for liscemes amd club membership. the clubs around mine that run dogs start at 850$ a year membership plus 275$ for the out of state liscense. up until about 6 or 7 years ago we could hunt the Conecuh National Forest with dogs but they have closed it too to dog hunting. Dog Deer hunting is almost gone abd that is ashame. some of my greatest memories of my grandfather was walking through Loferesta-perdido holding his hand running dogs because i eas to small to even carry a giun i was only 3 or 4 years old. Now that i am frown and have kids of my own it hurts that my kids won’t have that same opportunity that i had to do that with there Grandpa. i have 3 girls but each of them enjoy huntong almost as much as i do. i take them every time they want to go true we may not see a single deer but we are spending time together that most families do not get to spend with each other. hunting is not anout killing animals it is about teaching safe practices and shareing information about the poutdoors with your kids so that maybe oneday they will do the same with there children.
this is just the first step to cutting all dog hunting out, weather its fenced in or not.
That was a quick decision, and now the FWC high rollers can check-out of the Hilton and go back to work in Tallahassee.
One last comment on this story, “…we are a pro-hunting commission,” Yablonski said. If this is the case, then why is the commission so fee increase happy which in effect limits the number of folks who can afford it? That’s right, it all about the revenue because the government has to have its money, so that it can be spent on beach resort retreats for the staff.
So, I guess that if your cow pasture is fenced, you can’t chase the coyotes out??