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Escambia Purchases $12.5 Million Radio System; Media Outlets Ask For Delay Over Dispute With Sheriff
September 3, 2010
The Escambia County Commission voted Thursday night to purchase a $12.5 million communications systems for use by the county’s law enforcement, EMS, fire department, road department, road prison and code enforcement.
Local media outlets, including NorthEscambia.com, the Pensacola News Journal, CatCountry 98.7, NewsRadio 1620 and WEAR TV 3 had lobbied the commission to delay the purchase over concerns about Sheriff David Morgan’s plans to encrypt his department’s radio traffic — leaving the media and the public unable to listen in using a radio scanner.
“It does seem that loosing the ability to listen to the audio transmissions of our county’s radio systems would be a very bad for the public to the extent the media is the eyes and ears of the public,” Dave Hoxeng, owner of CatCountry 98.7 and NewsRadio 1620 told commissioners Thursday night.
“Let me ask you a rhetorical question. If your house is on fire or your wife is getting beaten, who do you want to respond? The public? The media? Or the Sheriff’s Office or fire department?” Morgan asked the commission. “For us to spin this to say something that it is critical for the media to respond to this incident is complete and utter nonsense.”
Morgan has publicly opposed allowing media access to the radio traffic on encrypted channels to be used by his department. Instead, he has proposed expanding an Internet based CAD — computer aided dispatch — system that shows active calls, as well as a “paging” system that will use text or email messages to alert media outlets on pagers or smartphones about high priority calls.
“The media is attempting to portray to you tonight that we are trying to restrict their access. Nothing could be farther from the truth,” Morgan said. “In order to protect my officers and protect the public, this system needs to be encrypted.”
The sheriff provided the commission of an example where unencrypted scanner traffic could present a public service and officer safety issue.
“Horrible areas on Pond Street and Juniper, common knowledge that the druggies up there are listening to our radio scanner,” Morgan said of Pond Street in Century and Juniper Street in Walnut Hill. With “the druggies” listening to scanners, Morgan said “When we roll up on scene they’ve closed up shop and left on Pond Street…now all the drug dealers know that Mrs. Smith is the one that called. If that’s not a public safety issue folks, I can’t describe one to you any better that that.”
“What I am truly hearing from the media is ‘you are not giving us what we want’…we’ll that’s life. My concern is public safety and officer safety,” the sheriff said.
Dick Schneider (pictured) publisher of the Pensacola News Journal, asked the commission to delay a vote on the radio system to give local media outlets another opportunity to meet with Morgan.
“We would like to continue our discussions with Sheriff Morgan on making this work for the benefit of the media and, most importantly, the public,” Schneider said. He suggested that criteria could be determined to establish which companies are professional media, and those outlets could be provided with the digital key needed to unencrypt the Sheriff’s Office radio traffic.
Kyle Brinkman, news director at WEAR TV 3, said the encrypted radio channels “would hamper our ability to serve the public and quickly deliver information during situations such as hurricanes and tornadoes. We all are all aware of how important it is to be able to deliver timely and relevant information to viewers during these life threatening situations.”
The decision to encrypt the Sheriff’s Office radio traffic was a policy decision to be made by the sheriff, not the commission, Commissioner Gene Valentino said.
Radio traffic of the other county services will not be encrypted, allowing the media and the public to continue to listen to fire and emergency medical traffic using scanner radios. The new radio systems is expected to be installed and operational in as little as 18 months.
Comments
37 Responses to “Escambia Purchases $12.5 Million Radio System; Media Outlets Ask For Delay Over Dispute With Sheriff”
The right of the public to know what is going on does not extend into the arena of real time operational details on life threatening calls or calls where information needs to be disseminated among officers widely, quickly and yet securely. The media types are upset because now they’ll have to pound a little more shoeleather. The job of the police is not to provide the media with leads to stories, it is to efficiently and effectively fight crime and protect the public. There is NO reason that the media can’t get their information from a delayed CAD or by SMS alert. The argument that “they’re a public service” doesn’t hold water. If the media demanded all of the details of a crime scene on a homicide that was still being worked, they wouldn’t get it. I can think of a lot more situations where encryption would be helpful than it would harmful. It is awfully lame to try to bring up tornado warnings and what not, as if those come from the police department and not NOAA. If you think a new Sheriff would abandon a tool that makes his officers more efficient and safe, you’re dreaming.
Does ANYONE that is making these negative comments currently (or in the past) worked in the law enforcement field? Do you have ANY idea of crap these men and women deal with on a daily basis? I am willing to put money on the table and say that you do not.
I have seen first hand where a crack house (on Satsuma Ave.) was busy one minute, and as soon as the call went out they all scattered. Yea, guess what, they were listening with the same radio shack brand scanner you have at home.
Sorry if offends someone but the Sheriff made a decision, he is not going to change his mind just because 1/10 of the population gets their panties in a wad.
Stick to your guns Sheriff! Most of us that are not conspiracy nuts and care about what you guys do have your back!
JW from FD
Just in time for election time. Smells like Morgan is another McNesby in sheep’s skin. He is not doing anything up here he promised. Nothing but a shell game. I hope someone else runs next time.
Citizens: The sheriff works for YOU. If he insists on conducting all operations in the shadows, fire him at your next opportunity. Your county just spent $12+million of YOUR money and plan to keep YOU, the taxpayer, in the dark.
One encrypted channel for drug enforcement and similar operations is all that can be reasonably justified by a PUBLIC agency. Anything more, especially fully encrypting the system, opens the door for abuse. The example cited by the sheriff in the article could be solved with ONE encrypted channel. Could it not?
Public tips from scanner listeners have solved far more crimes than criminals listening to scanners have ever avoided. What you lose from full encryption is far greater than what is gained by it. And that is not even considering the accountability of the public agencies. YOUR public agencies which YOU have a right and an obligation to monitor and hold accountable.
If they insist on operating in the shadows, let them (the comissioners and the sheriff) know at the ballot box.
REGARDING:
” If I was a rich person I’m sure my trial would have been a lot different. ”
“A MAN IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN BROKE.”
In the end the leos are gonna do and say what they want. Till we have a full force of honest leos that want to protect and serve honestly none of it matters. I have a deposition from an officer that says one thing under oath then another deposition saying something completely the opposite then when his old smurky self gets up there to testify I hear him say he really don’t remember. Now were talking about someone’s life on the line its your JOB to get it right. They allow things to be put in places that isn’t right to be used against one. God help us all. And I’m not saying they are all bad cause I’ve met some that seem genuine but one never knows. If I was a rich person I’m sure my trial would have been a lot different. Keep on letting criminals take advantage of the system. And I’m sure dispatch doesn’t go over the radio with someones full name that calls in on the drug dealers that would be stupid anyway
For all that is not familiar with our current communications in the county… A new and updated system is needed for the safety of responders. Our current system is outdated.. I do not care if the public can scan it or not, my only concern is that the ones who actualy need it, it works for them.
REGARDING:
“. . . the sheriff . . . will hide 100% of what he does.”
Remember he said he isn’t hiding it, just doesn’t want to release it until after the fact.. All his actions regarding dispatch would be open to the people, it just reduces the chance of independent observers as well as reducing the chance of alerting his targets.
He considers it a good balance.
News people would prefer he not alert his targets (so they will have something to report) but let them know at the time so they can be there and see and report how it went down.
David for the perfect balance
on a fine weekend
It’s nice to know that the sheriff who campaigned on transparency will hide 100% of what he does. Was there a problem at our schools today? Do deputies still patrol Walnut Hill or are they always in the crime hell of Century? Did a deputy wreck a car because he was speeding to lunch? Do the deputies get our on our streets and patrol, or just sit at the station watching college football on Saturday afternoons? We, the taxpaying public, won’t know because the general will have his secret radios.
Just An Old Soldier, Sheriff Morgan is correct – some well organized dealers will have someone located close by with a scanner. That’s why we, here in St. Louis County, use encryption for drug deals, raids, etc. Currently we don’t have a digital system but our new system was voted on by the people of St. Louis County and it passed! So it will be coming soon and encryption will be on the channels which need to have it – as mentioned in my previous post. The public can be and has been a huge asset for law enforcement. But there are very important reasons to have the capability to encrypt certain channels, when needed.
There are many good (and important) reasons to have SOME encrypted channels. And there are just as many reasons to have the rest of the channels used in the open. As for the “bad guys” monitoring the frequencies – some might buy a digital scanner, then pawn it for drugs…some might buy a digital scanner and not be able to figure out how to program it and some could care less about even buying or listening to a scanner. (Truth be told and we’ve seen it over and over again – the dealers, robbers, etc. who carry and monitor scanners are VERY much the MINORITY of people on the wrong side of the law!
But I both understand and very much appreciate why law enforcement feels so strongly about the need for encryption and, to a point, totally agree with them. There are many scenarios where encryption is very important – examples: undercover drug operations, any kind of joint operation with a Federal agency (DEA, FBI, etc.), ANY kind of raid – there are a number of different reasons for them besides drugs, and the list could go on and on.
And, there are many reasons to have the rest of the radio system without encryption! The police cannot possibly have enough “eyes and ears”. But their job is to protect the citizens and many of those people monitor scanners. As often happens when a call comes out, one of those people listening to their scanner will see a person or persons mentioned on the radio or a vehicle a department was looking for, reference some major crime. Without those “tips” from the public, the arrests might not have been made or, by the time the police caught up with the individual(s), he/they may have robbed, burglarized or perhaps murdered someone else.
So hopefully the Escanaba County Commission and the Sheriff decide that there will only be a select group of channels with encryption available to them – those who really do need it and the rest of the digital system will be open (unencrypted).
I don’t think what the Sheriff seen with the cell phones being answered having anything to do with radio traffic. It was nothing more than a lookout down the road calling. If they said over the radio where they were going, then that’s their fault. They have always had special channels on the radios for raids, swat and all. Just another example of lack of knowledge of the job. William, I guess you have the idea of how he feels about the media now. It’s all about me. You can’t say you weren’t told.
To The High Sheriff,
The encryption or closing off dispatch information will make law enforcement
and other emergency services(and the elected officials that oversee them)much
less accountable to the taxpayers that employ them. This is not just a media or
scanner enthusiast issue…The secrecy that results from encrypted public
safety information also impedes residents right to know about matters of public
interest. Monitoring public safety transmissions allows the media to respond to
news stories and emergencies to provide information of critical importance to
citizens quickly and efficiently. The use of radio scanners is integral to protecting
the public…i.e., toxic spill,traffic accident,train derailment,gas leak, at-large
criminal,disaster or other dangerous situation, the lack of, or delay in receiving
such information can create a public safety risk. Law Enforcement agencies are
already adept at quietly conveying or hiding sensitive information. They dont need
to rely on digital / encrypted transmissions for that. The media has an obligation
to pass on information to its listeners,readers,viewers in other words to the
taxpayers. This watchdog function helps to maintain public confidence in the
professionalism of Law Enforcement and Emergency agencies. Relying on a paid spokesman form an agency offers no substitute. A criminal would have to
not only figure out how to program a digital scanner with all of its talkgroup ID’s
but would have to listen to hours of radio traffic to fully comprehend what he’s
listening to,while simultaniously monitoring all of the overlapping talkgroups
and frequencies of the dispatched event…with all due respect. Thats what
Nextel Direct Connect is for.
The new requirement by FCC stated the radios needed to meet narrowband requirements by 2013. They do not need to be digital until 2025. The sherrif has outdated radios that cannot be upgraded to narrowband. The rest of Public Safety has kept up with the times and have narrowband capable radios. The new digital system the County is planning on updating to is not the greatest. Noise affects the radios and transmission is distorted in wind or around loud noises. There are a lot of dead spots that will very likely not be serviceable. The system currently in place could have been updated to narrowband for less than $4 million and would have served very well until the companies selling digital had time to do more research and actually work out the bugs they know they have.
So the ambulance chasing media will no longer be able to give us all the gory pictures. No big loss in my opinion, the details will be made available and that is all the non-LEOs need. I for one have been apalled by some of what I see plastered on this website on more than one occasion. The LEOs safety far out-weighs the publics need for gore.
Big Chief also agrees with David concerning removing the profit from drug crime through decriminalization.
This system is not new. Many surrounding agencies have similar systems already. Now the poor ole ‘media” can’t get their hot story. Big deal.
h)It shall not be unlawful under ss. 934.03-934.09 for any person:
1.To intercept or access an electronic communication made through an electronic communication system that is configured so that such electronic communication is readily accessible to the general public.
2.To intercept any radio communication which is transmitted:
a.By any station for the use of the general public, or that relates to ships, aircraft, vehicles, or persons in distress;
b.By any governmental, law enforcement, civil defense, private land mobile, or public safety communications system, including any police or fire communications system, readily accessible to the general public;
Since this is a communications issue. The law enforcement can make a decision to notify media on a need to know bases. There are situations were even the media gets in the way as well as public site seers.
REGARDING:
” Why didn’t more police die in the world trade center? They had better communication equipment, so therefore more of them heard the call to get out. ”
Or maybe they didn’t consider it a legal/law enforcement matter and didn’t go inside in the first place?
David thinking if they’d been in there,
surely they’d've mentioned it to the firefighters
First of all i would like to commend the Escambia county sheriffs dept. for all the hard work they are doing. It is nice to see those green and white tahoes riding the roads. William you are doing a great job and i say Thank you for all you do for our community. Now to the article: most of the people talking bad about the new radio system has probably never used the new and improved digital radio technology. I as a public servant in the fire service say get the new digital system. Radio traffic is so much clearer. When on an emergency call you don’t need to have to guess what dispatch is saying and the new system will improve the ability to communicate. What was the reason for the 343 fireman deaths in the world trade center? Radio communication. Why didn’t more police die in the world trade center? They had better communication equipment, so therefore more of them heard the call to get out. With as much rural community as we have around here the new radio system would sure help our police, fire and EMS services.
i love northescambia.com i believe william uses it to help as much as he can.. i feel news media should be given a license to listen to fire and ems.. if they are held accountable there should be no problem.. i dont believe william would cross that line. i dont think evryone should have the ability to ease-drop.. everyone wants the leos to do their job but whine if they are the ones getting the ticket..
I find myself agreeing with Walnut Hill Roy as to the line between law enforcement and military becoming blurred. I want LEOs to be proactive in enforcement operations against the critters out there,but I also want my constitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure protected. That being said I , I personally have no need nor desire to listen in on their communications and don’t really see the need for anyone not involved in law enforcement to do so either. If there are concerns of any inappropriate behavior concerning the communications of the LEOs perhaps a citizens oversight committee could be appointed .
The issue of spending money, and the issue of encryption is really two different unrelated subjects. The encrypted system is no different than them using nextel/southernlinc now, The main dispatch probably could remain unencrypted, with specialty channels like narcotics and tac channels encrypted as a compromise. The system itself can be configured in many different ways. BUT it is mandatory that the agencies meet FCC narrowbanding requirements by Jan 1 2013. If the old equipment in use is not capable of narrowbanding, then they really have no choice but to upgrade equipment.
For ‘Cynical and Old Soldier’:
Mr. Cynical, I am truly sorry you feel that way. As for “losing your vote,” I seriously doubt if I ever had it. Your response is indicative of the problem with blogs, ie anyone and everyone can provide their opinion unobstructed by any facts. And a lie repeated often enough becomes accepted as fact (propaganda techniques from NAZI Germany). The ’secret police’ that you fear won’t exist under the encrypted system either. Why? All the media has to do is ask for a copy of the actual radio calls (recordings), and under our public records laws it will be provided. This in turn is matched to the CAD.
Mr. Old Soldier, I have actually watched what I described go down in real time. We were in the process of making the last major gang bust over on Garnett Circle and Green Street, and I observed cell phones being answered by two dealers who then immediately walked away. I asked the Sgt in charge what had just occured, he replied “their lookout just phoned then to say a patrol was enroute. About a minute and a half later one of our units rolled up on scene.”
It’s not just the neighborhood gossips that monitor our net. The gang bangers and drug dealers have someone assigned this duty. That is why it is nearly impossible to make street level arrests from citizen calls. They know we are coming, and are taking the appropriate actions.
Thank you for your continued interest in the management and oversight of the Escambia County Sheriffs Office.
David Morgan, Sheriff
Escambia County, FL
436-9512
REGARDING:
“Dick Schneider (pictured) publisher of the Pensacola News Journal, asked the commission to delay a vote on the radio system ”
I took Dick down Pond and Ramar a while back while showing him the sights of Century.
David for all things wonderful
100% support for Morgan on this matter. Officer safety and citizens come first. Concerned about the money, if it allows LE to stay a step ahead of the scum, then its money well spent. If its money you are concerned about, lets fight for “Our Money” being spent to support these upstanding citizen’s of society that will do nothing but sell the drugs’s and attempt to elude the law every chance they get.
Morgan just lost my vote. What do you have to hide, Sheriff?
The public has a right to know what their law enforcement is doing.
Bah.
Smoke filled rooms and secret police.
Humbug.
REGARDING:
” “Horrible areas on Pond Street and Juniper, common knowledge that the druggies up there are listening to our radio scanner,” Morgan said of Pond Street in Century and Juniper Street in Walnut Hill. ”
If the criminals are actually monitoring radio transmissions, consider setting up officers at all exits of a known problem area and announce over the radio that Task Force 7 is ready to raid that area.
Anyone who rushes away has just given you probable cause to search them. Any who shut down waiting for the other shoe to fall is still shut down. Do it often enough and they will ignore legitimate raids.
Of course, having a deputy’s car roll through every so often should work wonders too.
David for removing the profit motive for crime
The police should have encrypted communications but not fire and EMS
I agree with both sides of this issue. I hope it can be worked out for the good of law enforcement and still allow the press to do their job. If I had to choose I’d rather keep LEO safe than be informed about everything. I’m not a Morgan supporter, but I think he might be more right than wrong on this one.
Gus said “If the media can get information with CAD, what’s the problem”
I halfway agree.
I agree that the general public should not have access to every call on the emergency scanners. Nosey neighbors, the “bad guys” etc listening in is bad news.
I completely disagree with the sheriff deciding what case has priority enough to contact the media. For any government agency to control what the media has access to reeks of politics and bad “mojo”.
If the media could hear every call on the CAD like they could the scanners I would be a little less leary of letting the General splurge $12 million
mr morgan you have my support
way to go sherriff
For the media to argue that it will limit their access to information is hilarious. They don’t cover 90% of the incidents as it is (with the exception of northescambia). They should look at it as just saving them more money – for news they have no plans on covering anyway!
“The police couldn’t catch him because he was listening to the scanner and would be gone before the police could get him. ”
Pure and unadulterated Bovine Speculation. No basis in fact to make such a claim, unless you have personal knowledge of the perpetration of the crime. Hmmmm….There’s a thought….I mean, as long as we’re getting all paranoid around here….
How about this one? My keen insight is that because of the Press reports on the Fake Cop, he decided to take a vacation from his activities and flee the area for parts unknown to escape the “heat”? Hopefully a drug-cartel town in Mexico. Sounds more plausible to me.
The argument that “the Bad Guys can eavesdrop” is a complete canard. This system is based on paranoia, fear, and distrust of the Public.
I was a Morgan supporter, and still am one, but in this case I believe he is in error. A $12 Million Dollar error using Taxpayer Money. Error.
This is very poor stewardship of OUR MONEY. I hope that the Sheriff doesn’t follow in the footsteps of those before hime that have gotten addicted to O-P-M…Other People’s Money. And this at a time when unemployment has sky-rocketed, property values have plunged, and the Government’s anemic response to the BP Oil Spill has greatly damaged our local economy.
Utter Fiscal Foolishness.
I’m 66 years old, still pretty savvy and very computer literate; yet I’m having a major problem with what’s happening in law enforcement today. I formerly lived in Maryland, it was common practice for “SWAT” teams to make raids on houses and the first thing that they would do is shoot any dog that barked as a threat; it didn’t matter if they were in the wrong house or even sometimes for the wrong reason, the homeowner still ended up with a dead pet. I have a problem with Law Enforcement Officers (LEO) dressing up in black, with hoods to protect their identity making raids; the line between military and civilian raids is becoming more and more blurred.
The encrypted communications further plays into this role of “us and them” driving an even larger wedge between the LEO and the ordinary citizen. Like politicians, LEO sometimes forgets just who they are there to protect and serve leading one to wonder if the cure isn’t worse than the disease. I understand Sheriff Morgan’s reasoning, but I also understand the public’s need to oversee the organization that’s spending its money.
The path that we started down a long time ago is becoming a long road that one can’t help but wonder, “is it the right road and is the journey for the right reasons?”
If the media can get information with CAD, what’s the problem? With the way the system is now anyone can get a scanner and know where the police are and what they are doing. As far as PNJ, I don’t think they listen to the one they have. I am sorry for NorthEscambis.com because William and his team really know and care about what’s going on in this town. It has almost been 2 years since someone was pulling young women over, late at night, he had lights and looked like he was a cop, but he wasn’t. The police couldn’t catch him because he was listening to the scanner and would be gone before the police could get him. I media never did say he was caught. I wonder, if they had this new system back then, would he have been caught?