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Escambia Delays $12.5 Million Radio System Purchase Following Media, Safety Concerns
August 20, 2010
The Escambia County Commission was set Thursday night to approve a $12.5 million replacement of its current radio communications system, but the decision has been delayed until September over issues raised by several local media outlets and possible safety concerns.
Commissioner Grover Robinson said he wanted more time to ensure that there were no safety risks with the system to firefighters in areas where the system might provide a weaker signal.
Robinson and Commissioner Kevin White also called for a delay on the purchase due to concerns raised by media outlets, including NorthEscambia.com.
Under the proposal presented to the county by Motorola, all radio channels operated by the Escambia County Sheriff’s Office would be encrypted, preventing the public or the media from listening to the department’s transmissions.
“All broadcast and newspapers with active newsrooms…monitor these channels to learn about breaking news, fires and traffic issues,” said Dave Hoxeng, owner of CatCountry 98.7 and NewsRadio 1620, in a letter to commissioners.
Hoxeng’s radio stations were joined by NorthEscambia.com and WEAR-TV3 in asking the commission to delay a decision on the communications system until the issue with the Sheriff’s Office encryption could be addressed.
NorthEscambia.com is not opposed to the Sherriff’s Office using encryption on their channels, according to a statement released Thursday.
“We understand that the encryption will allow the Sheriff’s Office to be more effective in its daily operations and will provide an extra level of safety and security for the department’s officers,” said NorthEscambia.com Publisher William Reynolds. “However, there are methods by which the radio channels could be securely monitored by the media so that we can continue to inform the citizens of the county about the breaking news, traffic information and other stories that they are accustomed to us providing in a timely manner.”
Hoxeng’s letter to commissioners called for the county to provide two radios capable of decoding the Sheriff’s Office frequencies to each media outlet operating a staffed newsroom in the Pensacola area. That, according to his letter, would include the Pensacola News Journal, the Independent News, NorthEscambia.com, WEAR-TV3, WCOA-AM, CatCountry 98.7 and NewsRadio 1620.
Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan told commissioners Thursday morning that he had a lengthy conversation Wednesday with Reynolds about the media’s concerns. He said his primary goals were the safety of the public and the ability to fight crime, as well as the life safety of his officers. Morgan said that could be best accomplished with an encrypted radio system.
However, Morgan said he would work with the media to ensure access to dispatch information, perhaps expanding an Internet website to provide complete, live call information.
Mike Weaver, interim chief of the Escambia County Public Safety Bureau, said the county’s fire and EMS channels would not be encrypted, allowing the media and public to continue to listen to radio traffic on those channels.
The Escambia County Commission will next address the radio system purchase on September 2. A mandate from the Federal Communications Commission requires systems like that currently used by Escambia County meet certain standards. Escambia County’s current radio system is considered outdated by the FCC.
The system will be funded as follows:
Comments
30 Responses to “Escambia Delays $12.5 Million Radio System Purchase Following Media, Safety Concerns”
I am shocked on how misinformed many folks are when it comes to radios and scanners. First let me say that I am a scanner enthusiast. I have been since I was a child and will always be. As a scanner hobbyist I understand the rules and responsibility of monitoring police traffic. We do not disclose what we hear or drive to the scene of an emergency. By doing so endangers everyone. The other myth is that everyone has a scanner and is monitoring the police is false. Scanner enthusiast or Ham operators invest large amount of money in their gear. Most scanners of any capability cost $200+ for analog and $500+ for the new digital system. Most folks will not fork over this kind of cash are not going to be driving around following the police or fire. If anything my radios have helped me avoid areas where there was some kind of emergency. Another thing many readers don’t know is Florida law prohibits carrying any kind of scanner in a vehicle unless you meet certain criteria. For you average non-public servant types that means getting a Ham Radio license from the FCC. The time, effort and money spent to obtain the license are not going to be wasted chasing emergencies.
As far as the new radios are concerned, ask Okaloosa how they like there new radio system. They jumped on the Statewide Law Enforcement Radio System (SLERS). I don’t want to even get on that mess but you can Google it. Also see how control has changed already. See how the company says it will save the users money. It is a state wide system used by some departments now but a few have already gone back to their old or another system. And forget about interoperability. Departments will have to carry multiple radios instead of the one. Again ask Okaloosa but hey, there still using the old system patched into the new. Also Google P-25 Digital radio systems. There are many cities who upgraded and are still fighting with the manufactory because the system doesn’t work. Don’t get me wrong, P-25 is nice but only if it’s done right, the system is amazing. I could go on but I wanted to speak my mind.
Encryption: too bad, so sad.
The bigger issue is interoperability, or the designed lack of it. Illinois has their highly touted (and expensive) STARCOM 800MHz P25 trunked system. If three state troopers (with STARCOM radios on their sides) are at McDonald’s and the bank across the street gets held up, they won’t know about it until the local PD (without STARCOM) show up, red lights flashing.
The official Illinois State (and their sole-source vendor) solution? Make the PD throw away their reliable $500 radios and spend $5,000 per officer and $7,600 per car for Mother’s STARCOM radios, and pay Mother $53.00 per month per radio for the privilege of having them. And never mind that while you can scan talk groups, you can only scan two or three before the radio gets overloaded. And even if the local PD has STARCOMs, the troopers (scanning their dispatch group, statewide emergency, and the sheriff from the last county they were in) still won’t hear the local PD’s call for assistance.
I hope the folks over at the Escambia County Commission have read the fine print on the contract with Motorala. We here in Lake County found out after the fact that the new radio system will cost 1.5 MILLION per year to operate.
It seems this little item was overlooked. And just how did we come up with the funds to pay for it you may ask. It comes out of the pockets of some of the lower paid employees of Lake County. That’s right..they cut the work hours.
Citizens: The police and sheriff work for YOU. Your tax dollars buy the equipment. You have not only a right but an obligation to monitor what your public employees are doing. In real time if you like.
Most police agencies welcome and encourage scanners. More crimes are solved and criminals captured from public tips by scanner listeners than are foiled by criminals with scanners. Police should operate in the light, not in the shadows. In the few cases like drug raids or sting operations where secrecy is necessary, cell phones are commonly used. One encrypted channel for these operations may be acceptable, anything more opens the door for possible abuse of the public trust.
It is up to you. You can sit there and allow your employees to operate in the shadows or you can call your county commissioner and voice your opposition to this. Hey, you elected him/her to represent YOUR interests, let them know.
For the sake of a false sense of security, stupid or ignorant people will cry out for more “protection” by the Government – and those in Government will gladly oblige if they can only work in secret, in private, without the prying eyes of the Public. “Just let them work, why should we care what or how they do things!” Just let that freedom slip away, Citizen, it’s for your own good.
Again, this isn’t a War against our own citzenry, this is America, formerly the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave…and having served Honorably under EVERY President since Gerald Ford, with the exception of the current one (Thanks be to God) both on and off the Battlefield, I am personally amazed at how easy it is to give up those Liberties, and allow a Police State to set itself up “right here in River City”….
REGARDING:
“How many arrests have been made where the offenders are using police scanners?”
It looks like the real question might be: How many arrests have been avoided because the offenders were using police scanners?
I doubt it’s many but that should be what they were worried about if anything.
David for public involvement
***Quote*** ” Hoxeng’s letter to commissioners called for the county to provide two radios capable of decoding the Sheriff’s Office frequencies to each media outlet operating a staffed newsroom in the Pensacola area. That, according to his letter, would include the Pensacola News Journal, the Independent News, NorthEscambia.com, WEAR-TV3, WCOA-AM, CatCountry 98.7 and NewsRadio 1620.” *** End Quote***
I also do some work for the media group, http://www.incidentpage.net . I would like to know how I may get one of the radios, that could be set to monitor only, not transmit, (at my own expense), since I do send info out to the associated press and to cover “breaking news”. I actually provide MANY, MANY tips to the local media by listening now, and that helps to get a story / stories out to media outlets and to the public. For example, I have notified WEAR TV3 with dozens of tip that helped break stories, over the last couple of years.
I would like any help I can get on how to obtain (buy) one of the radio receivers so I may continue to do so once the Sheriff’s Office goes to the new encrypted system, whether it is open sky, ProVoice, or other methods.
Thanks, I hope someone will help me out on this, I will go to Sheriff Morgan if I must to see about this matter.
Thank You,
Walter Jinright
Yes, the public has a right to know after the fact; however, for those of us who have loved ones who are responding to situations in real-time, we feel that the general public should be willing to wait on an official report in a reasonable time frame. It is not imperative for you to be entertained at home when some of the first responders’ lives may be jeopardized by your need to know. This is not about concealing actions, but more about the safety of those who serve.
>> They need to pay for them if it’s needed that bad. William, I can’t believe you would endorse anything like this. Maybe at least you’ll post this comment?
The radios have an encryption key programmed into them (like entering a password on your computer). You can’t run down to radio shack or even Motorola and buy one with the correct key. They must be provided by the county. And they could bill us for them.
“escambia reader” has made some very good points and let me a few more. Does the general public now monitor FHP’s or Pensacola PD’s transmissions? My guess is probably not because they are already using upgraded systems. If you want to know about traffic crashes, anyone can go to FHP’s website to see what they are working.
From a victim’s standpoint, would you want all the scanner squirrels knowing that you have a problem and thus the gossip ring gets going about you or your family? Keeping victimology in mind, how many crimes such as domestic violence assaults, rapes, or others go unreported due to a victim’s reluctance because “everybody” is going to know in an instant when the police are summoned because they heard it on the scanner? William may not report these crimes on this website, but every scanner squirrel is now armed with his or her “right” to the information.
So, let the media in on the encrypted signal. With that, I’m sure every minute of the hour of every transmission is recorded for the record and if one is compelled to have to know, then that individual can do a public records request and obtain a personal copy.
For “Just An Old Soldier” If you actually served in military capacity, how would you like to have had every radio transmission open to everyone? Would that have compromised some military operations? If you say yes, then you have to agree that the police radio warns the criminal where the police are and when they’re coming.
Encrypt the Drug Task Force and the Crime Scene Investigators. Keep the rest of the Sheriff Department in the clear. Problem Solved.
Didn’t Morgan say his department was going to be transparent? Encryption is something that the CIA uses. Are they all going to wear the same suits with the black glasses? Why should the County be responsible for providing radios to the media. They need to pay for them if it’s needed that bad. William, I can’t believe you would endorse anything like this. Maybe at least you’ll post this comment?
How many arrests have been made where the offenders are using police scanners?
What is the occurance percent, or per 1,000, or per 10,000, or per 100,000? Has there even been ONE?
The logic of “bad guys will listen in too” is flawed. Non sequitur. In fact, I would find it hard to cost-justify this _enormous expense_ of TAXPAYER money on the idea that, BAD people will be listening to the broadcasts.
What we DON’T NEED in our society is a SECRET POLICE or any resemblance of that idea. And this type of system is exactly what this helps create.
It is first and foremost a HUGE expenditure of our tax dollars – OUR MONEY.
And second, it further isolates our law enforcement community from the citizens they are HIRED to PROTECT and SERVE.
Just more “Us versus Them” and “Cops versus Perps (“and they are _all_ Perps” as they usually say).
Think about it. Really. Think.
Law Enforcement having encrypted channels is nothing new, PPD has been for a while, it makes everything much safer for the officers on the road.
Say johnny bad guy is breaking into your house with his scanner, you call 911, now he knows A. the cops are coming B. Your in your house, now, he’s either gonna run away with your stuff he has, or he’s going to come find you, and kill you for calling the cops.
there are way too many scenarios that show reason for these encrypted channels. Not to mention peoples SS numbers that are broadcast over the air to verify the identity of someone who doesn’t have an ID on them, that can easily now be stolen.
I am in full support of the Sheriff’s Office going to encrypted channels, and I’m sorry if the media is butthurt about it because now they can’t find out whats going on. I really could care less, they can call the Sheriff’s Office and get details on anything going on.
I would like to know how the Sheriff’s Department and the Fire Departments are gonna communicate with mutual aid Departments like Santa Rosa County, Oakaloosa County, Blaldwin County and Escambia County Alabama because they dont have the funds to pay for it.
Several responses to this story have asked why the signals need to be scrambled or encrypted. The fact is that law abiding citizens are not the only people that have scanners and listen to the radio traffic. If a criminal or fugitive was being watched by the police and they knew this, would it not stand to reason that they would also be listening. In many cases the element of surprise is the best way to catch the person or persons and to keep LE safe. If they know that LE is on the way they can slip away or worse, sit ready to ambush the officers when they arrive. The safety of the officers and the citizens that are protected by getting the criminals locked up far outweighs the “need” to know.
huh posted: “We have a right to know about fire and rescue , lots of people have CB scanners and can respond faster than police/rescue if they are in the area, it could mean life or death”
The truth is that while many people, especially in our area, are more than willing to help, the response is best left to those with the training, knowledge, and tools to make the response safely. Extra people on the scene of an incident can be in danger, can endanger other citizens or responders, are many times in the way of the responders (whether Fire, EMS, or Law Enforcement), and can destroy evidence (whether they mean to or not).
As a responder for many years, I feel that all public safety transmissions should be encrypted. An example of why: many years ago when some new communicable and deadly diseases with no cure became part of mainstream society, the fire and EMS responders used a code to warn other responders to use all possible precautions for their safety. This was done to protect the responders and a code was used to protect the privacy of the patient. When everyone started listening to scanners and learned what the code meant, the responders were no longer able to be warned, even if the caller told the dispatcher of the presence of AIDS, hepatitis, etc. With encrypted signals the warning could still be made. I never heard of a case where the responders did not respond after getting the warning, they just took extra precautions for their safety. Would it not be a good thing to protect all the responders in every way possible? After all, these responders place themselves in harm’s way to protect you.
There is no underlying attempt to keep anyone in the dark (except the criminals). There should be a cost effective way to get good and timely information to the members of the press on items that need immediate publication or airing. Maybe the SO and Dept of Public Safety (EMS, Fire, and Emergency Management) could use a notification system to notify press of critical and time sensitive information. That is what the Public Information Officers are for.
I still do not know if I agree with the proposed new system or not. There are problems with the current system, but is the proposed system actually going to solve the problems or will it solve some problems and create a whole new set of problems? If new problems are created, what will the cost be to make the corrections? In some of the stories posted, the claim is made that the FCC is mandating this change to a new digital system. This is incorrect; the only mandate is that all voice and data transmissions be done with narrowband capable equipment. Some replies to the stories have done a good job of pointing this out. I sincerely hope that the County staff gives good information to the Commissioners so that they can make an informed decision.
The 12.5 million dollars could be better used to hire more police officers instead of a new radio system. just because the FCC says it is out of date doesn’t mean anything. As long as it is working without many problem I say don’t worry about it and hire more officers that would be the biggest help to the Escambia County Sherriffs office.
huh wrote:
“We have a right to know about fire and rescue , lots of people have CB scanners and can respond faster than police/rescue if they are in the area, it could mean life or death”
Are you serious! Thats all the Fire and LEO’s need is for a bunch of “Good Citizens” running around attempting to rescue or fight crime. So instead of 1 victim they have to rescue they now have two or instead of a criminal they are chasing they now have a hostage situation!
Also William:
Have you done any research on how much other systems or upgrades will cost to comply with the FCC regs. Instead of having everybody bashing the county for wanting to spend 12.5 million lets see what other systems would cost!
Makes me wonder what they are trying to hide. Our Law enforcement should be transparent in my opinion.
No need to hide if your not doing anything wrong. Don’t LEO’s have Nextels with group talk? Its digital and already encrypted. I could be wrong.
Also, it would be VERY easy to set up a website that streams the feed live. Then you could control who listens via an authenticated account on the site. Then the media could use the pc’s that they have already to monitor the feed from dispatch. Does the Sheriffs office not have an IT Department? The cost would just be a computer to run Linux (about $400.00) and time to set it up, and bandwidth.
I mean, its 2010, don’t be afraid of technology, embrace it. Don’t just throw our money at a problem and expect it to solve it. Spend our money properly and in a responsible way please. If i am not mistaken, is there not an encrypted channel all ready?
Just wondering how many times a responder’s safety has been compromised by scanners.
“Under the proposal presented to the county by Motorola, all radio channels operated by the Escambia County Sheriff’s Office would be encrypted, preventing the public or the media from listening to the department’s transmissions.”
Sorry police force, we are the public and pay taxes , you guys work for us. Don’t think you can get out of checks and balances by hiding with ” encrypted” communications.
We have a right to know about fire and rescue , lots of people have CB scanners and can respond faster than police/rescue if they are in the area, it could mean life or death
I question the value of this whole idea in the first place.
This isn’t a War where we need our Soldiers protected by commo ecryption on the Battlefield (and there are lots of glitches with the MILCOM systems too – sometimes amounting to a real Charlie Foxtrot).
I believe that the average everday good Citizen has a right to hear what our Deputies are doing, and are entitled to their own “situational awareness”. Many of us live in a rural area. Some would say that is what the Press is for, but I say that we have been let down many times by the Press (apologies to William, your fellow journalists in the area are woefully lacking in skill and timeliness), PNJ, and WEAR to name a few real disappointments.
I question the value of spending so much money on a system that will cut out of the communications loop so many Citizens, not to mention our neighboring county LEOs.
I question the value of this expensive system that will only make more isolated the officers of our community FROM our community. We listen to you Deputes working! Thanks for your hard work!
I question the very premise of ths system, that our Officers are afraid that the Citizenry will “listen in” to the broadcasts to give aid and comfort to “the Enemy” – criminals and scoff-laws. The average Citizen is law-abiding, and thanks God everyday for our ECSO and LEOs.
We are not at War with our own People. There is no Enemy, only simple people trying to live safe and sane lives. We are not “Perps” waiting to be picked up before we violate the law again.
I’ve seen this mindset before – “Us vs Them” in Law Enforcement (as in “There are only two kinds of people out there, Cops and Perps” in quotations for a reason!), and on the Battlefield, and it is nothing but destructive and counter-productive. This strikes at the very heart of our community, and speaks volumes about the level of trust our Sheriff and his Deputies place in us, their employers, the common Citizen.
This isn’t Chicago. This is Escambia County. We don’t need to spend MILLIONS of dollars for this canard of a system that will likely be eclipsed in a short period of time by emerging technologies.
Thank you,John
If the news media wants radios let them pay and pay for the cost of the system not the tax payers.They need to share the cost of the towers and maintenance.
Do we really need the Sheriff’s Department to become a “secret” Police?
Part of listening to the radio is the transparency that comes from operating in the public eye.
Encryption reduces accountability.
Say NO to encryption altogether.
If something happens that the Sheriffs Office feels like the media needs to know about it………..they will call them.
“Hoxeng’s letter to commissioners called for the county to provide two radios capable of decoding the Sheriff’s Office frequencies to each media outlet operating a staffed newsroom”.
And when I said provide them, I meant that the media outlets purchase them and have the county program them. As you said, these are not cheap Radio Shack units.
Lets put the 14 radios (based upon you article of two per media outlet) that the county would buy into the hands of the people that need them, and have the media outlets purchase their own.
>Another delay… Next time it comes around for approval the cost will probably be more than $15 M
>By the way doesn’t the media already access to a sheriff’s office website that displays current calls for what’s going on all over the county?
Because we can’t. The radios have an encryption key programmed into them. You can’t run down to radio shack or even Motorola and buy one. The request the radio station made does not say the county will pay for the radios.
Another delay… Next time it comes around for approval the cost will probably be more than $15 M. Encryption is really a good thing to keep those who don’t have an actual need to know on what’s actually going on like the criminals that scan police frequencies in order to carry out their crimes. By the way doesn’t the media already access to a sheriff’s office website that displays current calls for what’s going on all over the county?
I find it interesting from the list to find “Solid Waste” but not the dog catcher. I guess they figure that there’s going to be more emergency trash than rabid or other loose dangerous animals.
I am all for the media being able to know what is going on in the county, but I do no understand why the county should supply the radios to them?
I am sure I will get some backlash for this, but since many of the media outlets have been so harsh on the counties spending habits, why do they not offer to supply the radios themselves?
I am firefighter with the county, and trying to get anything is like pulling teeth because what the county is spending is always criticized by one group or another!
I am all for better communications, we have several “dead zones” in the county, that this system may reduce in size or eliminate all together! But if this is being questioned already how can we sell the citizens on other equipment we need, like replacing rescue equipment that is outdated or buying equipment to meet demands in the future!
I know what it is like trying to call for help and dispatch can’t hear you, so let them get the new system to help keep providers of public safety a little safer so they can concentrate on the job at hand (and not worry about if they will be able to call for help themselves if needed).