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Mistaken ID: Man, Neighbor Chase Down, Shoot At PNJ Delivery Men
February 24, 2010
An Escambia man and his neighbor ended up chasing down and shooting at three newspaper delivery men this morning thinking they were actually burglars.
Sgt. Ted Roy, spokesperson for the Escambia County Sheriff’s Office, describes what happened:
“At approximately 3:45 a.m., Escambia Deputies responded to a shots fired disturbance in the 5500 block of Turkey Rd. While en route information was being received that a white vehicle was being chased by a pick up truck and an SUV. When deputies arrived they observed three vehicles running in an open field. Deputies secured the vehicles and then observed several people within the field.
“All parties were secured and the following information obtained from the resident at the Turkey Road address: Douglas Weinberg stated that his wife woke him and stated that she observed someone inside the back yard creeping along the fence. Weinberg stated he armed himself with his black semi-automatic handgun and
exited his residence to see a white colored vehicle exit a side street one house from his. Weinberg stated his neighbors began exiting their residences due to the commotion.
“Weinberg’s neighbor, Jerry Stefani exited his residence with a revolver firearm and observed Weinberg yelling at a white vehicle. Stefani entered his pick up truck, picked up Weinberg and began chasing the white car. Another neighbor had entered his vehicle and tried to follow Weinberg and Stefani.
“Weinberg and Stefani pursued the white car, occupied by three people into an open field on Turkey Rd. The three occupants, later identified Dylan Duffewn (19), David Crittenden (32), and Daniel Hayes (22) got the car stuck in the mud in the open field and fled on foot due to Weinberg and Stefani being armed. Weinberg and Stefani then fired several rounds at the three fleeing occupants and into the air in an attempt to stop them from running into the woods. Victim/Duffewn stopped and laid down out of fear of being shot and the other two continued into the woods. Investigation revealed that Weinberg and Stefani had exited their residences with the above described handguns.
“The three occupants of the white vehicle were actually delivering newspapers for the Pensacola News Journal and were not involved in the attempted burglary at the Weinberg residence and fled only because they observed the two homeowners armed with guns and believed they were about to become the victims of a robbery.
“The actual burglars were not apprehended and left the area in the confusion. The Sheriff’s Office is investigating that case and has developed suspect information.
“Warrant Affidavits have been sent off for judicial review charging both Weinberg and Stefani with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon without intent to kill.”
Comments
44 Responses to “Mistaken ID: Man, Neighbor Chase Down, Shoot At PNJ Delivery Men”
David,
I always enjoy reading your posts and your articles. I’d love to see more. You have such a good, down to earth attitude that combines common sense with humor and intelligence, things we just don’t see enough of anymore.
Keep up the good work!
REGARDING:
“They had been hit repeatedly,”
Exactly. They had been robbed and they were ready to see a robber and to punish a robber. It is natural. It is also dangerous if you are the one they are focused on.
There was a fellow in Century a few years back who had been vandalized by teenagers. He finally had enough of it and killed the next one who came on his property.
The one he killed was a retarded kid who had never intentionally wronged anyone. He was just looking for his dog and the ones who incited it may even have pointed him that way, telling him they saw his dog go under that house.
It was a big joke to them even when the kid got killed because they didn’t care anything about him either.
David for a clear conscience
REGARDING:
“And why did they run?”
Someone’s coming at you with a gun, possibly cursing and accusing you of theft while you’re going about your daily job.
You can stay there and depend on his kind, understanding, reasonalbe nature or you can run and depend on the law of averages for shots fired at a greater distance.
What would YOU do?
David too big a target to run but understanding of the thinking of the swift and skinny
Burglerized (misspelling intentional),
I’ve been raped, shot at, beaten and had my home AND my vehicle broken into, my purse stolen, my identity stolen, etc. Absolutely NONE of that would cause me to chase, threaten with a firearm and actually SHOOT at someone I thought might possibly have been slinking around my back yard! I probably would follow them AT A SAFE DISTANCE while informing 9-1-1 of our situation and location but under NO circumstances would I do something so stupid as to shoot at them or even into the air. What happens if I accidentally shoot an innocent bystander? What if I shoot and kill one of those I am chasing and then discover that they had nothing to do with any wrongdoing? Then I’ve killed an innocent person because I was too hotheaded to think and act rationally.
Art—I have read 776.012 /776.013 /776,31 /776-032. It does not say you can chase down a person and shoot them and NOT face civil action. If they are committing a forceable felony maybe ok. You can bet one of our money hungry lawyers would go after every thing you have or will ever have.
It seems to me most of you have not had issue with people steeling your, stuff and being victomized, and the police do their job, but they are not that fast , to catch theives that are leaveing the scene
Shot first? The people where fleeing and they shot in the air (not very smart , but we do live out ,not in the city)
They had been hit repeatedly,
And why did they run?
REGARDING:
“If this person can prove he was acting is good faith regarding the Stand Your Ground self defense law he cannot be prosedctued criminally or civily!”
It was the STAND YOUR GROUND law wasn’t it?
Not the TRACK HIM DOWN AND SHOOT HIM law?
David not certain it applies in this situation
Has no one read the statutres of our new Self Defence law passed in October 2005.? 776.032 immunity from crilminal prosecution and civial action. If this person can prove he was acting is good faith regarding the Stand Your Ground self defense law he cannot be prosedctued criminally or civily!
No respect for the MULLETT WRAPER!!!
REGARDING:
“You have to take a test to get a license to drive a car, but anyone over the age of 18, unless convicted of a felony or domestic violence, regardless of training or experience, can purchase a firearm. I support gun ownership rights 100%, but I am a firm believer that firearms safety training should be mandatory for anyone interested in owning firearms. ”
The difference is that the right to drive a car is not guaranteed by the Constitution. If you restrict the right to own arms for any reason, you have broken the supreme law of the land which includes “the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
And don’t give that foolishness about how it only gives militias the rights of the people, that is the idiocy which got those silly militias going in the first place.
Amend the Constitution if you think it would make matters better. Obey the Constitution until then. And beware throughout because crazies and outlaws will always be armed.
The main question is whether we would benefit from disarming those who would obey the law in the first place.
and here we have just one more reason to get your news from northescambia.com.
There are practically never any bullets involved and you don’t even have to go outside to get it.
Wow if three men delivering papers together can make a profit, then I want in on it. I think there is something fishey here , just cant put My finger on it????????
Apparently, the neighborhood (and the homeowners in question) had reported to the Sheriff’s office a whole string of burglaries in the area. One man had had his truck and boat gas tank stolen, in separate incidents. Other persons in the neighborhood had various large-item thefts over the last couple months, including a stand-up air compressor, the toolbox from a pickup truck, and many smaller items.
At the time of the incident, one of the homeowners observed a man within his fenced in yard, and one outside the fence, and they were passing objects (later determined to be the homeowners belongings) over the fence. The homeowner gave chase, but the suspects were lost in the ~5 acre yard of an elderly woman, whose house/land is only accessable to Turkey Road by an easement along a property line.
Later, at 3:45 AM, a white vehicle was seen going back to that house. When the vehicle passed by the original owner’s truck, they saw that it had two extra people in it, and gave chase (for maybe 1/4 mile) south along Turkey Road. The white vehicle missed the turn onto Scotland Lane, ran off the end of the road into a wet field, and became stuck.
At that point, one or both of the homeowners started shooting*. More than a dozen shots were fired, and one of the people (Crittenden) lay down on the ground. The other two ran across the muddy field, apparently becoming entangled in their baggy pants, abandoned their pants (including IDs) and kept running. That field backs onto Perdido Bay, though, and the deputies were there in force by that time. The men came came back to the deputies and explained they were newspaper deliverymen at that point. However, they were not able to name who they were delivering papers to, or to say what addresses they were delivering to.
I don’t think it has been determined at this time if all three men were actually in the employ of the PNJ**. And it also strikes me as odd that three men were required to deliver newspapers from a vehicle. It might well turn out that one or more of the men were in deliveries, but it also appears that one or more may have been from the acquisitions department. The sheriff’s deputies on the scene seemed to think the ongoing burglaries in the area was not going to be a problem any more.
[*I can't condone this at all. Seems like Weinberg and Stefani need more time at the shooting range: Not only to hit their targets, and watch out for what's behind their targets, but more importantly, when it's better to not shoot a weapon at all.]
[**Even the NRA has picked this up as a reason people need more training, if they are going to have firearms. Put they just parrot the News Journal coverage of the story, which is a complete joke. But we're used to that by now.]
Maybe the mail carrier, UPS, Fed-X and the paper carrier need Kevlar vest. This is just really bad…very poor judgement was used…this could have ended much worse.
The PNJ supplying a sign for the car (what a joke, are you kidding) they are too cheap for that…As a recent carrier it is not uncommon to have 3 people deliver the paper…If you have never done this job you have no idea what pertains to it….The carrier is not an employee of the PNJ they are independent contractors….Most would be amazed at what goes on in the middle of the night while one is asleep its not all that easy at times to deliver the paper…Traffic is a problem,drunk drivers, teens running the streets at all times of the night,not to mention if the paper is late that means bus to deal with as well….And one last thought there are customers who have their papers delivered to the back door or back porch and if you don’t get it there you are charged for a missed delivery…..Just know things aren’t as simple as most may think….Have a good day ….
Ref. “warning shots”— most law enforcement departments have rules against them because of the chance of hitting an innocent person and or property damage. What’s the old saying—what goes up must come down. I recall a lot of comments on other B&E where a lot of people said shoot first and ask questions later—now chase down someone and shoot at them and then say SORRY. If they had hit one of the PNJ people the PNJ people wouldn’t have to deliver papers any more. How do you spell CIVIL JUDGEMENT.
Someone on the PNJ comments had a good idea:
“why dosen’t PNJ place cartop signs on the delivery vehicles, like pizza delivery????”
Sounds like all involved used poor judgement.
safaety in numbers…. the headline might have read “three paper delivery people killed together by crazed homeowner”
these people were threatened by the very thing they try to protect themselves from. I believe all honest lawbiding gun owners could suffer from this action. the knee jerk reaction with situaions like this is usually pretty bad. we will all suffer! I urge all to contact elected officials and plead the case of responsible gun ownership and severe punishment for those who do not follow that. I do not condone this action, once they fled / left there was no threat. after re-reading the story, there was no threat from the time the home owner exited his home. I still think if you fire shots, no matter the direction, it shows intent to kill. to me anyway it shows you are willing to use the firearm for more than a visual threat!
The deliverers in my neighborhood are NEVER alone. There are always at least two. I asked them why once and they said SAFETY!
Wonder why there were three paper men? Seems strange wonder if they were really delivering papers. I know that we have the paper delivery person everyday and they are always alone. Just makes you sit back and think that there just might have been more going on than delivering papers. Were all three being paid to deliver papers?
God forbid if these guys would have caught them. I can totally understand the three men. They may have had multiple routs that they were doing together. There is also something called the fleeing felon law. That states that if the threat is running away, i.e. no longer posing a threat to you or someone else, you can not fire upon that person. Even if that person has already taken another life. You can not even fire a warning shot to get the person to stop.
HMMMMM……just don’t understand why the home owners didn’t stay inside and call 911…I bet IF there were real burglers around they probably hooted all the way to their car!!!! Isn’t the statistic that more gun owners are killed with their own guns,than by other peoples guns???
Even with a gun i would not be inclined to leave the safty of my home to go after a possible burgler! and who was left to defend the poor women??? oh…maybe they had their own guns!!!!
Wow , more & more scary stories posted every day. Ya’ll Please be (CAREFUL).
I recently took a handgun safety course and the word of the day was “safety”. You can not be careless for even one second with a weapon of any type and you use it for protecting yourself and your family only (I’m not refering to the hunters). That includes your home, your property, your life and the lives of your family. Were their lives in danger at any time? If not, and I don’t think so, then the next word I would suggest is THINK…THINK…THiNK… We have law enforcement that are trained to chase people through fields and decide whether to shoot or not while you are safe behind locked doors protecting yourself, WHICH YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO!!!!!
You have to take a test to get a license to drive a car, but anyone over the age of 18, unless convicted of a felony or domestic violence, regardless of training or experience, can purchase a firearm. I support gun ownership rights 100%, but I am a firm believer that firearms safety training should be mandatory for anyone interested in owning firearms. This type of reckless behavior gives those of us who are trained and experienced weapon handlers a bad name. I hope these men are prosocuted to the fullest exent of the law.
as far as the “Does it take 3 people to deliver newspapers these days?” comment….sometimes if you have a couple ( a couple is 2) learning a route and a trainer YES THAT WOULD EQUAL 3 people” …when the people want papers porched.because whatever reasons ranging form being “ACTUALLY” disabled to downright LAZY to pick up the paper in the driveway,,.yes THEY WILL RUN to the door to deliver it …they are on a time schedule…if they dont get the papers til 3am AND HAVE TO PUT THE INSERT S IN THEM and your “rolling on the go” and have to deliver by 6AM monday-sat and 730 am on sun so they customers wont complain…then yes i can see where it looks like a “burglar”..in fact that route off turkey road takes approx 3 hours to throw…if you think you can do better no misses, on time…apply for the delivery job , , .for 12 cent a paper for delivery i would run too
Since no one was hurt, I find this action by the homeowner a little much, but on the other hand, if they could have caught them, then what? Individuals are get tired of people breaking in their homes, so what do you do? I have chased a burglar off my property, I don’t know what I would have done if I had caught him. I don’t have to worry about that because he out run me. Just glad no one was hurt.
My comment about three people delivering newspapers had nothing in support of shooting at someone. It just struck me as odd. If you reread my post, I said I would never shoot at someone who was fleeing.
But I do sympathize with people thinking that they may have been robbers. It is unnerving when you have people prowling in your neighborhood.
Unfortunately, they did not leave it to the Sheriff’s department to handle it. I have found pretty quick response times when we have called for something on the non-emergency line.
Not to be contrary but just wanted to point out something to RSB –
There could be numerous reasons why there were 3 people in the car delivering papers. It really wouldn’t be an issue if someone had not started shooting at them without cause.
The article stated:
“Weinberg stated he armed himself with his black semi-automatic handgun and
exited his residence to see a white colored vehicle exit a side street one house from his.”
The car was already one house down before Weinberg ever saw the car. They were not “running away” initially – they were simply continuing their route. If a truck was racing toward you before 4am – I think that I would run away as well. – It’s probably a good thing they did – based on the judgement exercised by these homeowners they may not have lived to tell the story.
Shoot first, ask questions later is not the philosphy.
This story seems okay until the part where the homeowners shot at the guys when they jumped out of the car. They shouldn’t have done that, no way to articulate fear when someone is running away from you and not presenting any threat. Bad call.
However, I would think chasing or following possible criminals in an effort to keep visual contact until the police are on the scene, in and of itself, would’ve been okay.
I do find some question with the victim newspaper employees saying they fled when they saw the homeowners exit their houses with firearms thinking they would be robbed. That’s kinda thin.
Give’em a break. Revenues are way down at PNJ. They got to make money somehow. NorthEscambia.com is puttin’em out of business
First off, I do not condone chasing anybody with a shotgun – no matter what the circumstances! But this story is very odd; something does not add up. The Pensacola News Journal needs to explain why it takes 3 men to service one paper route. A person who has legitimate business around somebody’s property at 3:45 am would not run away because homeowners come out the door to find out what is going on (gun or no gun!) It simply does not make any sense to say you ran because you were afraid that the homeowners were trying to rob you!!!
If someone breaks into your house shoot’em dead with no questions! But, don’t go chasing cars down the street and shooting at the first person you see. What a bunch of jerks!
I hope they DO lose their rights to own firearms, Bill. The INNOCENT deliverymen could have lost their LIVES!!!! Hot heads have no business with firearms.
These guys are going to be lucky not to lose their freedom but they absolutely MUST lose their rights to have guns.
This kind of miss handling firearms makes it bad for the rest of us. I understand wanting to protect yourself and your property. Those fired rounds hit something. Some people are just way to eager to shot someone. Now they may even loose the right to own a firearm.
to clarify further, more than your own property can be defended. any place a citizen has a legal right to be. stand your ground with no “duty to retreat” means you do not flee, it also means you do not chase. you simply have the right to protect yourself. if you chase the perp you are now the criminal and this is called assault. after you stand your ground that is it. if the criminal flees consider it a victory and call the police. never chase a perp unless you are lawenforcement and have a legal responsibility to do so. this is not a function of private citizens. the right to defend yourself is no to persue!
those idiots with guns chasing the paper men need to be in jail. they are a real danger to themselves and others. I hope the PNJ men press charges as the law is clear about defending “your own” property! stories like this prove and fuel the argument for tougher gun control. gun ownership is a responsibility and these idiots do not deserve to own guns. I think under florida law they can all be charged with felonies and recieve minimun sentenances of 20 years because they involve the use of a firearm. these “armed homeowners” have no business being free on the street. they need to go directly to jail. as for “without intent to kill” if they fired their weapons, there was intent to kill. the fact they chased them shows intent, not defense. put these idiots in jail! I urge all citizens to call the District or county attorney and demand justice on this case. this is a high felony and should carry a minimum 20 year sentance. as a gun owner I have no tolerance for this. responsibility lies with the gun owner. they did not act responsibly. think of the families of the three men attacked, they could be widowed, fatherless, Etc. this is very serious and is a step back for gun advocates. this hurts all gun owners because some fools act ir-responsible with their firearms.
You most certainly shoot an intruder through your window. Here is an excerpt from Florida Statute 776.013.
776.013: A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle
“The ’stand your ground’ law only gives you rights to protect yourself on your own property, right?”
I believe it would be more accurate to say “in your own house”. You can protect yourself with deadly force ANYWHERE if your life or another person’s life is in imminent danger. But an intruder needs to be in your house to be shot, and you need to be in there too. Don’t shoot them through a window.
I don’t think that is fair to make a statement about “3 people to deliver newspapers.” I support gun ownership, but these are the kinds of situations that fuel the fire for those who are against guns.
If you use a weapon against someone you must be sure you are using it against the intended person. You cant just shoot at someone you think was trying to rob you.
1. The “stand your ground” does not mean you can chase someone as that is NOT standing your ground. (Can’t take your ground with you)
2. You do not have to be “on your property” to apply the “stand your ground” law.
ANY time and any place you are placed under possible harm to yourself, you do not have to retreat. You can stand your ground.
It is a good law but one needs to know the limits of that law as it could lead to a life and death situation…
Does it take 3 people to deliver newspapers these days? We had a suspicious white car coming out of the woods into our neighborhood last weekend. Got partial tags but it sped away. We didn’t have guns (nor would I have shot at it!) just neighborhood watch signs and lights.
The ’stand your ground’ law only gives you rights to protect yourself on your own property, right?
““Warrant Affidavits have been sent off for judicial review charging both Weinberg and Stefani with aggravated assault w/ deadly weapon without intent to kill.”
THAT’S the part of this story I was waiting for! AMEN! You can’t pursue someone you THINK did something half way across the county and shoot them in the back. That’s called murder.