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Change Of Plans: Consolidated Government Will Pay For City Pensions
January 15, 2010
Language slipped in the consolidated government proposal at the last minute would make every resident of Escambia County responsible for funding the City of Pensacola’s problematic pension plan.
Consolidation supports had preached multiple times that county residents would not be saddled with Pensacola’s unfunded pension debt — currently over $75 million.
But just before the Escambia County Consolidation Study Commission turns their proposal over to the Northwest Florida Legislative Delegation today, the following language was added to the plan:
As consideration for the transfer of the assets of the ESP to the Consolidated Utilities Authority, the Consolidated Utilities Authority shall pay for those pension fund obligations of the City of Pensacola as those obligations existed as of October 1, 2010, until such obligations are retired.
The plan previously proposed that only the residents of the current city would be responsible post-consolidation for the pension debt. But with the new language, if voters in Escambia County and Century should vote for consolidation, they too will be responsible for the millions of unfunded debt in the city pension plan.
The consolidation commission’s final plans go the legislative delegation today. If approved by the delegation and the legislature, voters will decide as early as November if they want the governments of Pensacola, Escambia County and Century combined into one.
The Town of Century has withdrawn all support for the idea of consolidation, and the Escambia County Commission has asked the legislative delegation to delay a public vote on consolidation until November 2012 at the earliest.
Comments
52 Responses to “Change Of Plans: Consolidated Government Will Pay For City Pensions”
Do not trust these people to READ THE DOCUMENT. It could be good, but because everyone knows they wont read it, it will probably be BAD. Now that they have put money in the game, this bird WILL FLY! And where is my copy… I will read every page of it.
Government is not a shrinking animal; it, by it’s own nature, gets larger.
I am not immediately aware of a situation where a government got smaller.
SW, I appreciate your comments. You referenced Jacksonville. 40 years ago, Jacksonville/Duval was just a little larger (25,000) in population than we were. They said that consolidation and a Mayor/Council form of government is what allowed them to be where they are today. Clearly they have progressed and we haven’t. I am not indicating that I want to be like Jax, St. Pete or anyone else. I do however want my vote to count of the direction of our community. The collective “we” the voters shoud decide which direction we want to go. The current system prevents that. I am unclear on why you think consolidated government necessarily means bigger government. This system would force candidates to run on the budget, etc. When was the last time one of our elected officials ran on a platform of significant issues. They don’t because ulitmately the have no ability to effect that change individually. Instead we get candidates that run on platforms such as “I’m less nuts than the guy I am trying to replace”. We can do better. Whether we ultimately consolidate or not, the single member district have to be complimented with an elected executive that runs at large and is responsible for completing the agenda he/she lays out to the voters.
The reason most live in the county is because we don’t want to live in the city. If the city way is better, by all means go live there. Don’t push this on us.
Since when is getting bigger government going to mean better government? We should cringe when government says it’s going to be good to us, or make live better for us. There’ll be a price to pay.
Sure, the rural county form of government isn’t perfect; neither is the city council/mayor form in many towns. We’ll take it and maybe we can make improvements every now and then.
Do you think that many people won’t vote with their feet?
Maybe in a larger town like Jacksonville, Atlanta, Houston, or Miami where the city encompasses the county, a consolidated government would work; wait, Atlanta has surrounding towns, so does Houston….
All, I fully understand your concerns about consolidation. I guess what I struggle with the most is implicit in your rejection of the new proposal is an acceptance of the current system. I don’t see how the current single member district system has served any of us well. It provides minimal accountabilty and stifles leadership. Would be great if we could all put our collective energies together to figure out a system that provides a framework for economic growth and accountability. If not this proposal, I would love to know what you would propose. Getting “better” people to run, while sounds easy, doesn’t typically happen in this form of government. True leaders do not want to be 1 of 5. Leaders want the ability to lead, make changes, and be accountable for those changes. This system all but prevents that.
I know! We can all just vote to let Pensacola annex the entire county as the city limits; that would work. Only one election; no rebuilding of government; no wasted time on writing new charters. They can just go ahead and start taxing us at the municipal rate and everything. Representation wouldn’t even have to change.
We would begin getting all those city amenities and stuff. What a deal.
NOT!
So according to John P., going from five to nine voting commissioners is better as we assume all of Pensacola’s liabilities. Sorry, I don’t think so. Good for Pensacola, but not good for the residents of the county.
Robert, I welcome the discussion and debate. Just a point to think about, the county residents are currently funding the maritime park through the capture of CRA revenue and we did not have a vote in that. The entire reason I feel we should consolidate including a Mayor/Council or Executive/Council form of government so that there can be accountability which doesn’t exist now. As long as we continue to operate in the county with 5 single member districts, the community will continue to struggle. Change that and we change our future! Leave it the way it is and we will continue to be toward the top in the state in statistics that are less than complimentary
PLEASE!!! DON’T FORGET WHO STARTED THIS CONSOLIDATION MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE. GREG EVERS!! VOTE HIM OUT OF OFFICE AND SEND HIM BACK TO HIS FARM. SCOUNDALS LIKE HIM IS WHAT IS RUINING THIS COUNTRY!!
Trish, either dept has its pitfalls. Go with police and risk getting sued for ten million or be a hero in a big red truck but get fat from all the huge meals. Your choice, heads or tails? By the way…..I’m a little fat.
John,the city of pensacola is broke, the city can not fund its own ecat system, build their own libaries, fund their own christmas lights, fill their own pot holes, and no we do not wish to pay for your maritime park in which we had no say so in. What part of We( or a lot of us ) in the county do not wish to be ruled or governed by the city of pensacola, or your strong mayor, ) which we also had no say so in. By the way, do you really think it is a good idea to build a maritime park, baseball field in a FEMA declared flood zone , on the waterfront of a hurricane prone city? To be honest John I would not trust EAFO as far as I could throw a ECAT bus. My computer is broke right now , but you can bet as soon as I get it fixed ,I am looking to tear apart, piece by piece what you try to defend. Robert L Hudson. P.S. Fund your own pension plans, and leave us alone. You have gotten your self in to this , get your self out!!!!!
These folks need to be horsewhipped…. .
From J. Peacock, “ESP had $9.5 million in net revenue last year. $7.5 million was used for unfunded liabilties. If ESP was part of the Consolidated Utility Authority, that would leave $2 million additional revenue to either enhance utility services or lower rates for other utility services.”
Now then tell us why Pensacola has any unfunded mandates. Does that have something to do with creating obligations such as pensions, some of which are extremely generous, and funding $42M for a ball park without first raising the money or passing a tax to pay for those “mandates”??
Does ESP currently refund to their customers the amount of their earnings that is in excess of the amount they pay to cover the city’s financial obligations for such things as the pension fund and the $90M debt on the CMP bonds??
City employee:
Your sucker bet is right on……. Oh that cadillac plan is killing me, I will never be able to retire.
So where do I need to transfer to???? Will I be carrying a gun (watch out), or driving a fire truck (woman driver)?
To Former Escambia Resident: You are exactly right!! I move back to Escambia County after living in Baldwin County for about 9 years, thinking that Escambia County might just start to do the right things to make it a good place live and raise a family. My wife and I have talked about moving back to Baldwin County and leave this mess. We have great friends here, but our county government business dealing and the way they miss manage funds is just terrible. I get so frustrated when I hear all the wrongs doing going on and when something good does happen it seems to never out weigh the bad!! I thought I could make a difference by moving back, but I have failed and fell in line with the rest of the crowed. I guess the last straw for me and my family to move will be if the consolidated government passes. I am just terribly disappointed in the way things are going.
Former County Resident-
Just exactly what part did the county residents play in the dismantling of Century’s police department? The fact that Century is ‘but a shell’ is the doing of their city council, and residents. Last time I looked, county residents couldn’t vote in city elections.
The BOCC and School Board usually outvote us; assuming we have a board member to either body who truly looks out for the residents up here-you said it yourself. Remember, we only get one rep. If the BOCC or School Board wants to do something, majority rules and we lose. It seldom goes to a vote in a general election.
I’m not quite sure exactly where you are coming from with your post.
YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THE CITY IS NO FOOL. IF THEY HAVE THEIR WAY WE ALL WILL GET TO PAY THEIR DEBTS WHILE WE ARE GETTING NO NEW BENEFITS . FOR THEM IT IS A WIN, WIN SITUATION. SURELY THE COUNTY RESIDENTS CAN SEE THE HANDWRITING ON THE WALL. THIS WILL JUST BE THE BEGINNING.
I hear a lot of people complaining about consolidation, but yet no one in the north end wants to admit they helped foster this idea either. By that, I mean the residents of the north end never really stopped the city and county from taking away its autonomy. The town of Century was always meant to serve the north end’s needs; not the county or city of Pensacola. But, little-by-little, you let the what power you had slip away by taking away Century’s police department. Then you let the school board close down Century and Ernest Ward High Schools. Now, there’s nothing left in Century and the city’s a shell of what it once was, NOT because of the economy, or because of people leaving the city to go live in McMansions in Enon or Beulah, but because YOU LET IT HAPPEN! You refused to support your town, and now it’s coming back to haunt you bigtime.
I was smart enough to leave this county and I can tell you that where I live now, the county does nothing because everyone lives in small towns/cities that actually have things like a mayor, police force, and city services. If the city you live in tries some of pension-plan B.S. like Pensacola does, you vote in a new mayor and police chief because there’s actually something called ACCOUNTABILITY in these towns. What does your vote get you? Just one county commissioner who’s powerless to stop anything because he’s got to compete against four other people who have none of your best interests in mind.
The bottom line is, you let this happen by staying silent and letting the city and county bully you into submission. Eventually, consolidation will take place because at some point, everyone’s going to be completely bankrupt and there will be no choice but to pool everyone’s finances together to save the schools, police departments, and other county and city services. I’m just glad I won’t have to be a resident when it happens.
Trish, you must be in the general retirement plan…..thats a sucker bet. Police and fire pensions are a retired persons dream. Although I still would rather have had FRS.
I agree It is NO….NO…….NO…….And If No not good enough I say it is time for the NorthEnd to Pull out Of Escambia,Pensacola and Fourm it’s own County And City Government. We already have the City Century…………….So why not form a new County from Cantonment Line …….North to Alabama Line……….Wake up !!!!!!!
PEOLPE………..The Citizens of the County needs to form there on Group. Even If it takes making our on County……….away from Pensacola. If this should happen to Pass…. I will Leave Florida my home state where I was born and Raised and Move across the state Line like my daughter has into the State OF Alabama.
As consideration for the transfer of the assets of the ESP to the Consolidated Utilities Authority, the Consolidated Utilities Authority shall pay for those pension fund obligations of the City of Pensacola as those obligations existed as of October 1, 2010, until such obligations are retired.
Mr. Peacock, it clearly states the Authority (not ESP) will pay all pension obligations.
So you cant truthfully say that the City residents will pay the shortfall. The authority will pay it (ESP, ECUA, SANITATION)
Please get all of the facts about the pension plan before over reacting. The number shown in the paper and so on were after the stock market dropped, as you may have noticed the market has recovered to about where it was. A large part of the “lost money” was money that was paid by the people working for the city. I worked for the city at one time and I paid into two pension plans. The money was invested and lost value when the market dropped. You may recall that this was what George Bush wanted to do with our Social Security funds—thank God his plan failed. If you like the Board of County Commissioners and what they do, vote to keep what we have—other wise look at Jacksonville and other city/county governments that work better.
S D This is in no way disparaging this excellent forum.
But you see what happened . Immediately two more sources to get this info out popped up
Are there more we don’t know about? Maybe, just maybe someone out there has other sources we don’t know about that can be enlisted in this fight.
And fight it’s going to be.Educating the public is always a fight.
Sorry Mr. Peacock but both ECUA and ESP will be co-mingled in the utilities authority. Impossible to show ESP only shortfall to pensions.
You are mkin this up as you go!
You tricked us. Period
> This such an excellent forum we forget how small the circulation is
I don’t think you realize just how popular northescambia is outside of north escambia.
But no, it does not reach every living person in West Pensacola or Scenic Hill. But it probably the most powerful voice in terms of persons reached after the PNJ and maybe WEAR. But since WEAR is just soundbites and bits, it’s not as important in the consolidation issue.
Sure beats the old days when we had nothing but the PNJ!
Smooth rhetoric like Mr. Peacock will prevail over a lot of emotional vote no talk.
Truth on Peacock has the right idea. Present numbers and facts that can be reviewed and checked for relevance.
Also broaden the base of your position. This such an excellent forum we forget how small the circulation is. How do we get the West side of the county to consider these things?
There has to be a much broader base for voting intelligently within the county or we are doomed to fail. Think about it. North county can’t defeat it without help.
The difference between the ESP revenue stream and the pension costs would be made up from ad valorem tax revenue that would come from higher taxes of those individuals that live inside the existing city limits (urban service district in the proposed document)
Mr. Peacock:
Show us a map of the new 9 sections and then tell us that North Escambia won’t have but 1 rep up against 8 others. Then tell us what each and every one of us will be paying for this consolidation on our property taxes. All we’re getting now are a bunch of lawyers from downtown telling everyone how wonderful this new set up will be. You’ll never get close to selling us without something more concrete than your ESP numbers and accountability preaching. I don’t think we’ll ever see it because it will be too obvious that North Escambia will get less than they have now and pay more.
The “unfunded liabiltity is not a “static” number that can be measured at one point in time and then paid down from that time forward (like a personal loan).
The question that needs to be asked is “Has the city switched from a pension plan to some sort of investment driven retirement plan like a 401K?” There is a specific code number for these plans (for non-profit / gov’t employees), but it’s been a while since I worked in that sector. Until they stop the pension plan, the liability will continue growing and the fluctuation in the value of the plans assets (generally stocks and bonds) will weigh it down going forward.
Stu
What Mr. Peacock. Lightbulb go off that you bit off too much. No cute accountability remarks.
$80 million unfunded.
Annual pension cost $14 million
Annual ESP Profits $8 million
OOPS!
Mr. Peacock,
If you look at the city 2009 budget $14 million is the annual pension cost. So it will take all of ESP’s profits PLUS $6 million from other utilities just to pay the annual pension cost.
$14 million per year cost Mr. Peacock. More than ESP makes.
No thats your idea of a good deal. Maybe you need a little more accounting and a little less accountability.
To City Employee:
What the heck do you do to get $80,000 a year in retirement? I am a city employee and I don’t know anyone who gets that kind of money, even the director of my department doesn’t get that kind of money. You have to be in the higher ranks of the police or fire department to get anything like that. And I do mean HIGH RANKS. Can anyone say UNION.
What it looks like to me is you are just trying to cause more misunderstandings and hard feelings. If that is not the case then please tell me where you work and let me transfer to your department. I am a hard worker and promise to do a good job. My current retirement benefits will not be able to pay for my health insurance, property taxes, homeowners insurance, utilities and food. What a great retirement I have, I am sure I have one of those cadillac plans I keep hearing people talk about.
This is what I’ve been saying all along and now the “All for One” bunch has put it in writing. Vote NO on consolidation and let the city of Pensacola go down in bankruptcy flames on its own!
Would be nice if “Truth” had a name that he/she was willing to stand behind. As I stated I live in the county and don’t consider this a bad deal. ESP had $9.5 million in net revenue last year. $7.5 million was used for unfunded liabilties. If ESP was part of the Consolidated Utility Authority, that would leave $2 million additional revenue to either enhance utility services or lower rates for other utility services. As the pension obligations are paid off then additional revenue would be available to the consolided government. 6 or 7 of the 9 districts would represent voters that currently live outside the existing city limits. Seems to me like much more control of the future of our community would be in the hands of folks outside the city limits. It is going to be 10 months before this issue comes to a vote. During that time I hope that all of us take the time to put aside the emotion response and educate ourselves on what this proposal really is about and what it isn’t. There are legitimate issues on both sides. At the end of the day it is all about accountability, accountability, accountability. It doesn’t exist now. We have no shot now! This will provide an opportunity for a reasonable future for all of us
Remember, they are professional liars and thieves. As for taxes going to go up, they can easily go down. Governments are TOO big and need to massively shrink. Good time to start doing that. They no longer serve the residents, they serve themselves and corporations and too many people in Santa Rosa and Gulf Breeze.
John Peacock is the poster boy for the consolidation group. He talks accountability and economic development.
Let me translate his statements above
YES WE ASSUMED THE PENSION DEBT AT THE LAST MINUTE OR THE CITY OF PENSACOLA WOULD NOT GO FORWARD. SOMEONE HAS TO PAY THEIR HUGE DEBT OR THEY WOULDNT LET THE CONSOLIDATATION VOTE GO FORWARD. SORRY READNECKS MIGHT AS WELL BE YOU.
well mr. peacock we say NO! NO! NO!
Love all the comments and everyone’s passion on this subject. But please remember, the only way to “truely” have your voice heard is to get out of the house and VOTE!!!!
Maybe it’s time for the north end of the county to consider breaking away and forming our own county.
Just wondering.
Well I don’t know how anyone could have been so naive as to think that this was ever anything but a way to get the county residents to pay for the City’s irresponsibility. At least, now NothEscambia.com has had the huevos to come out and clearly say so. After all, what good is a free press unless they boldly expose corruption and stand up for the community.
What you must ask yourself is this: Once the county residents have bailed this bunch of crooks out of the financial mess they are in now, who will they get to bail us all out next time? Perhaps they can find a way to combine Escambia and Santa Rosa into a “Consolidated” county. Then they could blow all of Santa Rosa’s money too. In what fairy tale does consolidation make them change their ways?
This is a misrepresentation of the facts. Currently $8 Million per year from the ESP revenue is used toward the unfunded pension liability of the City’s general, fire and police pension plans. The FL constiution prevents existing liabilities to be spread outside the original geopgraphic boundaries that existed prior to consolidation. The original draft consolidation plan had ESP moving into the Consolidated Utility Authority which would have left the city residents with the debt and no ability to pay for it other than raise their taxes. This makes no sense. The language inserted last night provides assurance to the city residents that the existing revenue stream will continue after consolidation. In exchange for that the Consolidated Government (including prior county residents would receive a very valuable, revenue producing asset called ESP. The reason to consolidate is accountabilty which we don’t have now. Voting for 1 of 5 means our vote doesn’t matter. Consolidation is not about the city taking over the county. There are 50k city residents and 300k ish county residents. This is all about becoming a 350k strong community with a stream lined focus government (executive and legislative branches) that will be directly accountable for economic development, service delivery etc. In the past year or so the north end has lost a middle school and Mayor McCall indicated the biggest concern in the north end is the economy and jobs. So, the quesiton should be “What are the chances the existing form of government can provide solutions to those problems?” If you feel it can (hasn’t so far and don’t recall any commissioner running on that platform) then vote no. If you think a change in government can provide for direct accountability for your vote, then vote yes! I live in the county and no matter how I look at this from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense. Let’s face facts. Services are being cut now. Over the next couple years we will see increases in taxes at all levels, federal, state, and local. It is time to take control of the things we can control and that is local government. It is time to make it the most efficient, accountable government that we can.
Its actually up to $90. And the language leaves the potential openended. Thanks county guys for paying our tab. Dont you like how they slid that in after 7 months of meeting in the last 2 days.
90% of ESP customers are in the county not the city so it will be paid mostly by you.
And I PROMISE you that if you look deep the maritime Park is being assumed by you also. After all the city changed it this year to make it a general fund obligation.
Get used to it. WE WIN YOU LOSE AGAIN
Yaayyyy!! People in the north end will have to pay for my 80 thousand per year pension. Christmas comin early!!!!
Dear Pensacola,
We’d love to ride down to that mult-bazillion dollar Maritime park y’all built, but our bridges fell down. And since the 3 mile bridge fell in, Gulf Breeze can’t get there either. But we’s proud y’all built that Martime park with millions. So much more important than bridges.
We will get to pay for the Maritime Park too. Wait and see.
Wow! Whodathunkit?
NO! on consolidation. NO! NO! NO!
Leave us alone.
Just curious, doesn’t ESP provide service beyond the city limits of Pensacola?
I know Century provides gas service down into McDavid.
I distrust the idea in general but don’t know that this aspect is basicly wrong
Good grief—-when does no mean NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And we thought the politicians were bad. Change is not always what you are expecting.
Another reason why the county residents should vote NO to consolidated government. Imagine having a job with no pension plan or the company you work for many years no longer pays into a pension plan, and your tax dollars paying for the city of Pensacola’s pension plan. The federal government is cramming enough down the tax payers throats without the county of Escambia and the city of Pensacola becoming consolidated as one government. VOTE NO when it’s put on the ballot!!!
Good….
If all of the media highlights this point thoroughly, (kudos to William and this blog), then surely Every Person outside of the Pensacola city limits will realize that this is just a guarantee for higher taxes for the same services (or less for the North End). Merely a bailout rather than some glorified re-organization of government that supposedly saves money and resources and gives power back to the people! Blah, blah, blah! Ken Bell and his crony, Janet Lander must think we’re all really stupid. It usually takes awhile, but what goes around, comes back around. Let’s hope its sooner than later and this consolidation scheme gets canned quick.
Remember the state legislatorS who promoted and passed this FOOLISH idea that we need to REINVENT American Democracy instead of gonernment following the rules.
B.S.!!! The “liability Tail” Of their “retirement plan” has (to my knowledge) never been calculated, but could EXCEED half-a-billion $$$!!! And the only solution proposed is for a bankrupt Pensacola to spread their problem by getting more folks responsible in paying for the benefit of a few. Pensacola is desperate, and it shows. We also need to STOP the “double-dipping” by elected county officials.
Thank you William!
They just don’ t quit, do they? I’m glad we’ve got people like you keeping close tabs on the shenanigans these so-called “public servants” are up to.
We would only get “reduced services” compared to city residents, yet our fees & taxes would be used to bail out an old city pension plan? This sort of last-minute “tack-on” maneuver is exactly the kind of thing that makes me leery of any proposal the consolidation commission is likely to submit.
What other changes are they likely try and sneak in before it comes to a vote?