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Educators In Federal Court Today On Criminal Contempt Charges For School Prayer
September 17, 2009
Two Santa Rosa educators will be in federal court in Pensacola today, facing criminal charges for praying in violation of a federal court order. A criminal defense fund established to help with with their legal expenses has almost $70,000 to pay for that defense.
Pace High School Principal Frank Lay asked the school’s athletic director, Robert Freeman, to bless a meal where sports boosters had gathered to celebrate the completion of a new field house.
The American Civil Liberties Union filed the lawsuit in federal court almost a year ago against the Santa Rosa School District, Pace High School Principal Frank Lay and then-Santa Rosa Superintendent John Rogers. The suit alleged that Santa Rosa County Schools “persistently and persuasively promote their personal religious beliefs in the public schools and at school events”.
A federal court order earlier this year prohibited, among other things, any prayer in schools, “reading from a sacred text”, “calling upon a deity to offer guidance, assistance or a blessing” and religious services such as baccalaureate services. There are circumstances were student-led prayers are permissible, but school employees are prohibited to participate in the prayer, even prohibited from “a posture or manner that is likely to be perceived as an endorsement of prayer, e.g. bowing their heads, kneeling or folding their hands”.
Lay and Freeman were ordered to appear today before a federal judge on criminal contempt charges for allegedly violating the court order. They could, depending on the judge’s ruling, be forced to pay fines or serve time in jail.
Several supporters, including Milton insurance agent Robert Smith have formed a legal defense fund to help the two men pay their legal expenses. That fund has $69,670.99.
The lawsuit filed last year names specific events at several Santa Rosa schools, including Jay. The suit states that Jay High School held an invocation and benediction prayer each year from 2004-2008 led by students from groups such as the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. The ACLU also complains in the suit that Jay High School has held baccalaureate services that were religious in nature.
The ACLU also requested documents from the Escambia County School District that might relate to religion or prayer. Specifically, the ACLU requested records from Escambia Schools about graduations and baccalaureate services. The ACLU public records requests also asked for the notes of all speakers at the event as well as any audio or video recordings of the events. The ACLU request extended to all schools in Escambia County, including Northview High School.
Read the complete criminal contempt order against Lay and Freeman by clicking here (pdf).
Comments
43 Responses to “Educators In Federal Court Today On Criminal Contempt Charges For School Prayer”
God speaks about all of this in his word…….
“But beware of men: for they shall deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.” Matthew 10:17-20
“Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven” Matthew 10:32-33
“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.” II Tim.3:1-5
Stacy -
Evolution isn’t “ultimate truth” it only provides an explanation for the development of life on earth over time. It doesn’t have a set of practices or beliefs, it is based on observation and experimentation, not faith. Evolution provides no transcendent of supernatural quality. It is science, plain and simple. Science starts with theory and tries to prove the theory. If the theory is not proven, it is rejected. People who practice the scientific method start from a position of ignorance and move towards greater understanding. Religion starts from an assumed position of “all knowingness” and stays there. But it is only an assumption, not testable by direct, repeatable experience. You are wearing blinders. Talk this over with educated people, not just fellow Christians. You are not the only one confused, but confused you are.
Thinker-
This is for you off of your favorite source Wikipedia:
“Religion is an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural or transcendent quality, that give meaning to the practitioner’s experiences of life through reference to a higher power, God or gods, or ultimate truth”….i.e EVOLUTION for some.
Rodney, That is about the funniest thing I have read all day!!
Yet so very true!!!
He blessed the food. He wasant praying for your soul or trying to save anyone.
It just gave stupid people a reason to open there mouth. GOD BLESS AMERICA!
Can’t we all just get along!?
For all the folks who are so determined that the “LAW” should be followed, I have this question: When you drove your car today, did you come to a complete stop at that stop sign – or did you obey the speed limit signs? Why not? Are you above the law? Or are there just certain laws that are best to be obeyed? Which ones are those, may I ask?
If you did not, then you are a hypocrite yourself if you fault these men for doing what they thought was right, regardless of the ruling/law.
How would you feel if your child’s muslim teacher took out a mat and started a muslim prayer in the classroom? They dont have to participant, but can look around the room in this akward situation. Or maybe you think they should participate to avoid looking out of place. How would you feel as a christian to attend a work funtion and have to sit through a jewish prayer? I dont have a problem with any religion praying in church, in their own home, or quietly to themselves. You can even send your child to a private school that practices the religion of your choice. I read something once that said “there are no christian children, just children of christian parents’. Both sides are all yelling, but no one is listening.
For Constitution day, and aspect that is interesting in light of some discussion topics:
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html
Christians are SOOOO hypocritical! The same religious nut-jobs who ask how could anyone possibly be offended or harmed simply by hearing a prayer are the very same nut-jobs who were freaking out about the President speaking directly to school children.
I don’t know which makes me laugh more, the ridiculous things they believe or the ridiculous gyrations these hypocrites go through to hold on to their fairly-tales and shield their children from the truth.
Consequently, today is Constitution Day…September 17, 1787..the day the Constitution was signed by our Forefathers. Lets stand for our rights that they intented for our nation! I’m interceding for Frank Lay and Robert Freeman and everyone else represented in this “case.”
Stacy -
Evolution is NOT a religion. You apparently will believe anything. You need to read the little booklet “Letter to a Christian Nation” by Sam Harris. You can get a free synopsis of it at Wikipedia.com.
Religion is defined as: “A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.” or “An institution to express belief in a divine power”. Get out your dictionary. It’s easy and a lot of fun.
Evolution is based on an original theory by Charles Darwin that has been validated by years of examination of fossil record, carbon dating, historical records, DNA studies, observation of living creatures, etc.
most comments I can understand as opinion or belief, but one that I will comment on: evolution is not a religion, any more than biology or physics is a religion. There are no Evolutionary Churches, and some scientist who study evolution and other life sciences are Christians. I realize the science behind it undermines the young Earth creationist point of view, as well as it should, since it is based on an interpretation of scripture written as parable. There is no way 5 to 7 thousand year history of everything makes sense in light of what we know of the universe, our earth and the life on it. Most of the stars we see is the light created by them much longer ago than a few thousand years.
For additional reading on this: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
For those who went through Ernest Ward, I remember Mrs. Walker telling us that she believed in evolution, and knew it appeared to conflict with Genesis, but she wouldn’t pretend to have an understanding of it all, and I dare say she was as devout as anyone in her religious beliefs.
All this church and prayer talk has got me feeling funny…i think i feel a law suit coming on. How lame…people in general should be embarrased for such weak behavior. now if you don’t mind im gonna pour coffee on me and sue someone cause its hot.
The Weez,
The court order in reference here did indeed make blessing a meal a criminal offense…and as for your comment, “When they assumed they had to evoke their own special divine powers to bless everybody’s plates – that is proselytizing.”, I must say I don’t ever recall Mr. Lay claiming to have ’special divine powers’. That sounds like a personal issue you may have with Mr. Lay and is maybe something you should take up with him in person.
My whole concern here is that the ACLU may be taking this whole case a bit too far, and when a court order can make blessing a meal a criminal offense then that gives me cause to worry about future rulings that may be made.
I don’t feel any teacher or school official has the right to ‘force’ their religious views on students and if that was occurring and if any students were feeling pressured to participate or being ostracized for not participating that would be one thing and I agree someone needs to step in and stop such behaviors, if such behaviors are occurring, but to go so far as to make blessing a meal a criminal act is completely ridiculous in my opinion.
the way I read it it was a sports booster meeting….if the school children were not required to be there or required to sit during this blessing if you didnt want to participate ….get up and leave. i have got up and left churches because i did not like what was being preached… my perogitive.what the preacher preaches his perogitive
This is a joke I pray in school everyday. We need God in schools no more than ever, if that offends someone you don’t have to believe what everyone else believes. Prayer comes naturally we do it without thinking. We nned it more now since the nation is getting so corrupted. I respect them for praying in school I don’t care if the court says no. People have the right to pray where ever they want. We always bless our food and pray at games that noone gets hurt and that we win.
First Amendment to the Constitution, which says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
This is a joke. I pray in school everyday. With the nation being corrupt as it is now we need pray in schools and ofiices now more than we ever did. They have no right to ban school prayer from students before a game or saying grace before a meal. Its human nature we do it naturally. I support them congrats on praying in school.
Every year school children are proselytized by biology/science teachers teaching from state/county approved school books. Evolution is a religion, also. School children are not given a choice between evolution, creationism or even intelligent design. Only evolution is taught.
Pace Patriot Parent –
Blessing a meal is not a criminal offense, violating a court order is. They could have said a prayer over their own plates. When they assumed they had to evoke their own special divine powers to bless everybody’s plates – that is proselytizing.
This is about the Constitution. The Constitutional Rights of the students were violated. The students have a right to attend school, free of proselytizing by school officials. That has been the standard for fifty years. We expect better of our school officials. Frank Lay should have been fired when this was discovered.
In response to:
“Freethinker on September 17th, 2009 10:59 am
If they broke the law, then they should be punished, end of story!
Why should these two people be treated different than any other common criminal if they broke the law. Now I definitly don’t think incarceration is the answer, but certainly probation and community service is in order.
If we were all permitted to violate any law we didn’t agree with, what would this society become?”
And I ask again…Since when is blessing a meal against the law or a criminal act?
Does a court really have the right to make blessing a meal a criminal act? I think that is probably a better question to ask. And if it does then we are all really in for lots of trouble.
If they broke the law, then they should be punished, end of story!
Why should these two people be treated different than any other common criminal if they broke the law. Now I definitly don’t think incarceration is the answer, but certainly probation and community service is in order.
If we were all permitted to violate any law we didn’t agree with, what would this society become?
i believe that most of us were taught to say a prayer or something beore a meal when we were small. justy like not coming to the table with no shirt or having some type of hat or cap on. even to this day i’m 30yrs old your not going to catch me eating anything with a hat on or my shirt off. it’s just not right.
Perhaps too many folks are following after a religion and not after the Lord Jesus Christ.
Col 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Luke 18:1
And he{Jesus] spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
My concern with this whole situation is that the ACLU has taken this matter to a whole new level…forbidding teachers and school staff from even bowing their heads if students have prompted a prayer, forbidding schools from having baccalaureate services, which have been a part of graduation events in this area since graduation itself, and now they want to review the records of every single school in both Escambia and Santa Rosa counties just to see if they can find some other seemingly petty thing to cause a ruckus about. It’s almost like they (the ACLU) have a personal vendetta against NW Florida.
I agree that a court order should be followed, but ‘asking a blessing on a meal’…is that really a criminal offense? Aren’t there more pressing issues the ACLU needs to be looking into? Aren’t there more people out there that REALLY need the ACLU’s services and resources? Couldn’t all this time and money that is being spent on this trial be put to better use?
If you don’t want to participate in the blessing of a meal that generally takes less than a minute then just stand or sit there for that 60 seconds and then just eat for goodness sakes! No one was physically forced to participate, no child was harmed or corrupted because a man blessed a meal. If Mr. Lay had asked for a moment of silence so that those who wanted to could bless their own meals would we even be at this point today? Or would the ACLU still have brought this action?
I do offer my support for Mr. Lay and Mr. Freeman in this action that has been brought against them, not because I am a Christian, but because I think the ACLU has turned this whole suit into one petty thing after another and I feel that this is only the beginning of what they have in store for our area and our communities.
REMINDER: The US Declaration of Independence refers to God as “the Supreme Judge of the world” and “Nature’s God”. The US Constitution (Bill of Rights, Amendment I) says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF;”
The first Amendment SUPPORTS their exercise of freedom…some of you need to re-educate yourselves on your use of words…Webster may be a nice resource.
I think a lot of those who think their rights are being violated, by not being allowed to lead prayer in schools while staff members, ought to take a good solid course in Constitutional law. Probably as a condition of probation.
But when the U.S. Constitution was written in 1776 and accepted, there was no such thing as a “public school”…or am I wrong? Most all schools were run by one Church or another. Yet, as soon as it was made law that all children must attend schools (and most children attend public schools), it became necessary to protect their religious rights as individuals from undesired religious influence by those with power over them. That’s my take on it.
REGARDING:
Ryan on September 17th, 2009 9:13 am
“It’s important to remember that “prayer” and “church” are not on trial here. People are on trial. For violating a court order. It doesn’t matter what your religion is, if you violate a court order, you should expect to be hauled to court.
Do you get to violate a restraining order because of your religion?”
AND
The Weez on September 17th, 2009 9:05 am
“These two intentionally violated a court order. If Frank Lay thought the court order was unfair, than he should not have agreed to it. This sets a poor example for our children.”
You are, of course, right. People should never sign papers they do not intend to carry out.
It is possible, however, he did not realize the extent of the order and its limitations on his Constitutional freedoms.
It is possible he came to understand the unlawful nature of the order afterward.
It is possible he simply didn’t understand what he was signing.
Just because someone has a high position does not mean he is flawless.
Please consider, though, what if he had a court order requiring him to break into every third house on the left side of the street. Such an order would be unconstitutional and, thus, would be unlawful.
What if he sat on a jury and the judge ordered him to find the defendant guilty as charged. That would be unconstituitonal and unlawful.
Therefore, the reasonable thing at this point would be to accept any punishment and let them take it to the higher courts and see if any of them can still read the Constituiton without rewriting it in their own image.
or so it seems to me
Please refer to a grammar handbook for the correct use of the following:
principle; principal
moral; morale
who’s; whose
The above words have different meanings; therefore, what is being written could be misconstrued.
BigDaddy said it all in his comment. Thanks.
Read his commentt again and again.
Did these teachers, when they were in kindergarten, receive the evaluation…
“plays well with others”?
I doubt it.
Sympathetic? My child goes to this school, I am concerned about the character of the school’s principle. The mere fact he made a big speech at my church: then made a motion to have it excluded from this hearing, is a sure sign he has poor morale character.
The only thing Lay is concerned about is his pension. He never apologized to the thousands of children who’s civil rights he violated.
The US Constitution says nothing about freedom “from” religion. However, they are guaranteed the right of freedom “of” religion. It is unconstitutional for these men to lose that freedom just because someone else is offended by it.
I pray these men’s constitutional rights are defended & protected in court today as our Founding Fathers intended those rights to be.
Geez weez…………………can’t you be a bit more sympathetic?
It’s important to remember that “prayer” and “church” are not on trial here. People are on trial. For violating a court order. It doesn’t matter what your religion is, if you violate a court order, you should expect to be hauled to court.
Do you get to violate a restraining order because of your religion?
These two intentionally violated a court order. If Frank Lay thought the court order was unfair, than he should not have agreed to it. This sets a poor example for our children. I feel for Freeman who was led into this mess by Lay. Lay knew full well the consequences of the prayer, and was not brave enough to do it himself.
No matter the outcome there is going to be animosity. Like some areas do with different races, may be the area (after the dust settles on the case) should have a lunch gathering of different religions (Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, etc.) and talk in a civil atmosphere the differences of each others belief system. Most seem to think religious freedom only applies to Christianity and think nothing of discriminating against other beliefs.
One other point on Christianity; it is ironic how it has changed in its ideals from its beginnings where it the Protestant Reformation was a rebellion against the Catholic Church and it wealth and control of educational opportunities of the people. Several of the early Protestant movements were really socialist in there format; some very extreme. Now some are capitalist, who think God wants them to be rich and the scarier sect is those who teach a “Dominionist” notion, where Christians are to take complete control of the Earth, including the ability to attack nations that are considered pagan or sinful, in order to get (name your excuse here), and that environmentalism is to be ignored for God will replace any resource we use up and will not allow the Earth to become too polluted for our existence. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy for an apocalypse.
I BELIEVE “OF” DOES NOT CARRY THE SAME DEFINITION AS “FROM”..
I am sure that Mr’s. Lay & Freeman are good people. They have, nonetheless, participated in a concerted and premeditated effort to violate the First Amendment rights of freedom of religion and the Superior court’s order against such activities. Their actions demonstrate to both the public and their students an unacceptable level of disregard and disrespect for our constitution and the laws of our land. Their actions were clearly seen and documented by the county and the school district as illegal. They have broken the law and they must reap the consequences of doing so.
I am sure that they both have strong feelings about their religious beliefs, as do we all. However, they must, as school officials who are paid by tax dollars, place those personal beliefs in check when carrying out their professional activities. As individuals, they have every right to practice their beliefs. As school officials, however, they do not. Let the axe fall and let every school district understand that freedom of religion ALSO means freedom FROM religion and that no public school has the right or ought to have the right to promote ANY form of organized religion to children. That is the role of parents and houses of worship.
Please go down there today and support FREEDOM!
If you believe in prayer, now is the time. Not only are reputations and freedoms at stake for these men, but also the retirements they have worked so many years to EARN.
Everyone, lets pray for these men. It could be us next going to court or jail for going to church. If the ACLU wins this, don’t think it will stop. Isn’t it ironic tho that an organization that promotes Civil Liberties is sueing to take away other peoples liberties.