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Blog: Every Knee Shall Bow
May 10, 2009
The ACLU is asking a federal court to find a Santa Rosa County School District employee in contempt for offering a prayer at a school function.
At the time administrative assistant Michelle Winkler prayed at the February 20 Employee of the Year Banquet, a federal injunction was in place ordering school employees to refrain from praying at school functions. That injunction was upheld Friday by federal judge Casey Rogers, implementing a five year ban on prayer and religion in Santa Rosa Schools. Read that story here.
Escambia County has taken note, ordering schools not to take part in events such as Baccalaureate that are religious or Christian in nature. For the first time in 13 years, there will be no school-sponsored Baccalaureate program for Northview’s graduating seniors.
Winkler was instructed by District Administrator Jud Crane to offer a two to three minute “thought for the day” that was to not include a prayer. In an email exchange, Crane assumed that Winkler would withdraw from speaking if she could not offer prayer.
“I’m still on, and be unfearful of the current events, with your ‘off the record’ permission, I would like to use the prayer that I had prayed about and received from God and will suffer whatever consequences for,” Winkler wrote in an email. “I cannot be silent as God is my very life and Christ is who I am.”
“I simply cannot compromise my LORD. Like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah,” she wrote in another email, “I simply won’t bow down to another god.”
In our land of “free speech”, Casey Rogers’ federal order issued Friday prohibits school employees from communicating with a deity, including prayer and reading from sermons or sacred texts. Our nation and so much of world history is based upon the Bible, the mostly widely published book in the history of the world. Presidents and kings have prayed, and many of those prayers are an integral part of history. Prayer is a part of America. The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said it well — ” To be a Christian without prayer is no more possible than to be alive without breathing.”
But under Rogers’ order, the Bible is not a historical or scientific text acceptable in Santa Rosa Schools. The Bible, under the order, is in the same class as a comic book.
Teachers will not be allowed to display crosses, drawings of Jesus or other items depicting their faith in their classrooms. Teachers are not allowed to pray at school events. Pastors and clergy are not allowed to pray at school events. Not even bless the food.
“School officials shall prohibit the person making the address from offering a prayer,” the order says of persons speaking at school events. That is freedom of speech?
The order does allow students to lead prayer in certain circumstances. But a teacher cannot participate in the prayer. School employees are forbidden from folding their hands, bowing their heads or kneeling. That is freedom of speech?
Teachers with web pages are forbidden from acknowledging their religious beliefs on their web pages. School student clubs cannot have a chaplain. From the FFA to the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, there’s no chaplain permitted. That’s freedom of speech?
Escambia School officials will be forced, perhaps eventually by a court order, to follow the same rules. Our teachers are at the forefront of the battle, and they need the prayer that the ACLU seeks to prohibit. We are one nation under God. We will stand and pray for our teachers and students. Our students have many rights under the court order to lead prayer, and we will see the Lord do mighty works through them.
The ACLU has a court order. Christians have the almighty power of the Word.
I ask that you share this article with your friends, your neighbors and your churches. Pray for teachers and school employees like Michelle Winkler that they stand strong.
Here are the words that Michelle Winkler spoke at a school employee awards ceremony that have the ACLU seeking the federal contempt order:
“I love the way You have created each of with a purpose which includes the need to serve one another in ways that bring encouragement and inspire each of us to help one another to excel.
Tonight we celebrate some of those who are an inspiration to us and in whose deeds we have been blessed.
There is a Tree (Christ), on which grows the fruits of life: love joy and peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and self-control.
May we each eat freely from that tree and thereby extend that same grace and mercy to one another as You have faithfully committed Yourself of lavish on us.
Thank You, Father God- in Jesus’ holy and precious name – Amen.
To our teachers and school staff — it takes courage to stand. But keep standing strong. Peter 3:14-15 says: “But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not fear their intimidation, and do not be troubled, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.”
And there is a final argument on this issue that all, the ACLU included, should remember.
“For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” Romans 14:11.
Comments
50 Responses to “Blog: Every Knee Shall Bow”
This is a degrace and the time is soon approaching that many of God’s servants will be imprisoned for their faith…..the Apostle Paul spent many days, weeks , months and years in jail. Our Lord was crucified……what can we expect???
Rev. BJM…
It look very little time, when you have some knowledge and experience it is only a matter of a few keystrokes. As was stated the U.S. Supreme Court has NEVER banned prayer or the Bible from public schools, my daughter was a member of the Fellowship of Christian Students at Escambia County High School throughout high school.
Let me explain it this way – Bring Prayer into Public Schools – but first – Whose prayer? We must satisfy everyone because there is no mention of a specific religion! So on the first Monday of the month we do Anglican, then Baptist on Tuesday, then Buddhism on Wednesday, then Catholicism on Thursday, then Deism on Friday, then Episcopalians on Monday, then Hinduism on Tuesday, then Holiness on Wednesday, then Islamic on Thursday, then Judaism on Friday, then Lutheranism on Monday, then Methodism on Tuesday, then Nazarene on Wednesday, then Pentecostal on Thursday, then Rastafarian on Friday, then Samaritanism on Monday, then Scientology on Tuesday, then Sikhism on Wednesday, then Taoism on Thursday and finally (for now) Zoroastrianism on Friday. Then you start over to make certain that no religion was excluded and to then include the overlooked religions and now begin again … and do it again and again and again. How do you feel? Being forced to listen to the prayers and beliefs of a dozen or more religions that you do not believe in – all because YOU wanted prayer in public schools. Be careful what you wish for … you may get it!
Do you now understand why it is imperative that the government or its’ agents must remain neutral in matters of religion. Read your history, look at all the religious wars throughout the ages, look at how one state sponsored religion has oppressed, tortured, and killed millions upon millions in the same country throughout time. Do you not know that Jews, Christians, and Muslims ALL sprang from the same source. That Jesus and ALL the disciples were born and raised Jewish. That “Allah” is the standard Arabic translation for GOD – the only Deity, creator of the universe and omnipotent.
As for your statement “seeing as how all those PC twinkies decided to play cat and mouse with Christianity. Big mistake on their part.” I am totally clueless as to what you are referencing, as I am sure many others are also. You have not lived until you have walked in someone else’s shoes.
John, Andy, My 2 Cents, and Jim Bishop drop me a line.
Wow, all big and fancy, pointing out every wrong thing I said. You must have nothing better to do with your time. My point is that prayer may not be banned now according to YOU but it’sonly a matter of time, seeing as how all those PC twinkies decided to play cat and mouse with Christianity. Big mistake on their part.
Like most children, The Truth’s Daughter is long on enthusiasm but short on experience and knowledge. This is not bashing but merely an observation based upon her own statements and lack of perception.
1) Had she truly read “every single comment since my mother last posted” then she would have seen my posting about the Abington decision. The Supreme Court has NEVER banned prayer or the Bible from public schools. As legal guidelines issued in both the Clinton and Bush administrations made clear, students have a First Amendment right to pray alone or in groups, bring their scriptures to school, share their beliefs with classmates, form religious clubs in secondary schools and in other ways express their faith during the school day — as long as they don’t disrupt the school or interfere with the rights of others. This decision supports TTD’s own statement that “Christians have just as much right to pray as others do not to pray.”
2) Her second misconception is a common mistake, but still incorrect. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” This is part of the Declaration of Independence and NOT the U. S. Constitution as she erroneously stated.
As for her statement – “I got in some major trouble for a religious answer I put on a TEST. But I didn’t back down. The textbook had it’s opinion, and I had mine.” And the teacher wanted what the textbook said and not your religious answer … sounds fair to me … 2 + 2 = 4 is the accepted book answer and it happens to be correct. The teacher did not ask her to change her beliefs but to simply give the textbook answer. After 12 years of high school, 2 Bachelor of Science degrees and a Doctorate I can assure you that the textbook answer is the one the teacher wants.
However if what John said in his note to ***Virginia Roukema*** on May 14 is to be believed then the behavior of some teachers at Molino Park Elementary school have crossed so far over the line drawn by the U.S. Supreme Court as to be criminal in nature. To hold someone against their will and to attempt to coerce them into doing something that they would not normally do or to single them out for special treatment may meet the requirements for harassment, child abuse or even kidnapping.
I am certain that I would not want my children to have any part in a religion that proclaims its superiority by belittling the beliefs of others or coercing children to change their beliefs. Does not sound like the “golden rule” that I learned.
bill.sherman.1@hotmail.com
This time I speak alone. Because I have read every single comment since my mother last posted and I am ashamed. Ashamed of the American nation. Here we are, fighting over religion when there are wars going on. I swear, I’m in the seventh grade and I can act more mature than some of you adults. And I am one of the few who will not let my religion be suppressed when all other are accepted, encouraged even. That’s right. If you look at my mother and my first post, you’ll notice that. That quote came directly from me, from the observations of a seventh grader. Because I know it’s true. I’ve seen it firsthand. I got in some major trouble for a religious answer I put on a TEST. But I didn’t back down. The textbook had it’s opinion, and I had mine. Another quote of mine, “Christians have just as much right to pray as others do not to pray.” We don’t force to to pray, we’ll gladly let you do things your way. But you WILL not suppress the Christian faith.
There is an excerpt in the constitution about how all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. That among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty. Freedom. You are free to do things your way, and so are us Christians.
John, I will pray for you. And when Judgment Day finally arrives, I hope you are ready to meet your maker.
Had Michelle Winkler followed the instructions of Jud Crane to offer a two to three minute “thought for the day” that was not to include a prayer, obeyed the U. S. Supreme Court decisions of 1962 -63 that state that students have a First Amendment right to pray alone or in groups, bring their scriptures to school, share their beliefs with classmates, form religious clubs in secondary schools and in other ways express their faith during the school day — as long as they don’t disrupt the school or interfere with the rights of others or simlpy complied with Jesus own admonition to “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” she would not have broken the law and would not be in so much trouble.
What the Abington Township School District v. Schempp decision required was that teachers and administrators neither promote nor denigrate any religion — a commitment to state neutrality that protects the religious freedom of students of all faiths and no faith. As long as Ms. Winkler represents the state at a state function she is not being neutral. If you break the rules, the law, you suffer the consequences. If you do not like the rules, the law, then change it, but until it is changed it is the LAW and is to be obeyed. Just because you are a Christian does not mean that you get to cherry pick the laws that you will or will not obey. The laws are for everyone … or NO ONE!
I am certain that had a Muslim administrative assistant offered a prayer at the ceremony that all the Christians would have gone ballistic.
As for Ms. Winkler, if you feel that you cannot compromise your beliefs and will not obey the law, then perhaps you should seek employment in the private sector at a Christian school that supports your values and let another more qualified and law abiding citizen have your job. People are routinely fired from their jobs for insubordination, which is where you first went wrong and will be your undoing.
And when our days on earth are done, when by Thy grace the victory is won and we face our creator, we will be judged by how we have completed our task here on earth and handled the “certain inalienable rights endowed by our creator”. The Bible tells us to obey those in authority unless it goes against the truth in the scripture. I think we are being called to be light not heat and bring peace, just as the Prince of Peace, Jesus did when He walked this earth. I don’t know, I think the best thing to ask here is “What would Jesus do?”. I am praying for this and other similiar situations, that God would make a way , grant us the wisdom to know when to go and when to hold and that we would be strengthened to handle these difficult situations in a way that would please and honor our Father, God, maker of heaven and earth.
Dear *THE DOER *
I dont have a problem with you answering a question posed from a child about your faith. That’s what I consider normal human interaction. But to say none of your fellow teachers ‘give sermons or sermonettes’ is highly misleading and inaccurate to say the least. I dont have a problem with you wearing a pin or ornament of your religious faith. That is, as long as you would allow and encourage a Jewish teacher or student to wear a Star of David pin. Or support a Muslim Student or Teacher to wear an Islamic Cresent adornment. Or allow a LDS/Mormon Student or Teacher to wear a pin of the Angel of Moroni….see where this is going? I could go on and on. Where does it end?
In Islamic States they even have Islamic Courts. It is called Sharia,AKA; Islamic Law. It basically means by law that any affirmation of any other faith other then Islam is a Crime. The punishments vary from one Islamic nation from another, but they include Murder,decapitation,stoning,flogging,jail time and fines.
If you are not Muslim in those countries you are forced to pay a Kaffir Tax.(Kaffir means outsider)
I’m not doubting your abilities as a teacher here in Escambia County, I would however, encourage you to seek employment at a Christian school to better utilize your faith based inclinations and abilities.
I want my kids to learn an education and NOT religious Dogma/Doctrine.
I fear the day my children come home with Islamic homework(or any religious material/dogma). I really do.
Your views and opinions only perpetuate my greatest of fears.
If you would like, I can help by listing the many fine Christian Academies throughout our area for your perusal for possible employment…I’m a giver. It’s what I do and what I’m all about.
Have a Great day!
John brings up some good ones. I’ll add that it matters little whether those individuals were actually Christians or not (a rebuttal sure to come). Bombings and killings have still happened “in the name of God” or what God meant to those people. It’s a representation of the worst consequences. But not sure how one can come to the definite conclusion and “know that they’re not Christians.” Maybe they are or maybe they aren’t. Are middle-eastern extremists not Muslin? I don’t know. The point is that radical Christianity in the US is not so different from terrorism (Al-Qaeda is making more press because of the # of deaths and because there is a war going on with that group – last I heard there has been no war declared against KKK, Lamb of God, etc.). But there are similarities – both are closed-minded, both are forceful to implement their own thinking upon others.
It all seems a little off-topic. However, this all relates to prayer in that there are many in the Christian community who behave in radical ways. I think non-Christians are very turned off by this. So to get all riled up and say “this nation is going to hell” or “God will judge us for taking out prayer” may indeed push people further away. If you 100% confident in your faith, there’s no need to force it throught the channel of a classroom.
On a sadder note, we’re walking a fine line with not letting our teachers exert freedom of speech if we’re at the point where a teacher can’t pray at their own desk or wear a cross or have a cross tattoo showing. If I were a teacher I would hate that and I think it’s wrong to say someone can’t do that. But I guess if it prevents some believers from forcing God down people’s throats and completely turning them off, maybe it’s for better?
***Virginia Roukema***
No maam. That is incorrect.
Just last week ,Molino Park Elementary had a field trip to Olive Baptist Church to watch a music/symphony event being held there. Which is riding on the edge, taking into consideration had this event been held at a Islamic Mosque (Gasp!) or Jewish Temple(Dbl Gasp!) the Christians on this blog would have blown a gasket. Fact is,had it been held at those two places of worship it would have never transpired.
But it gets even more odd from there… My fifth grader was told that if she attends Church, she should wear a dress to this field trip. Nice thought,right? If she does NOT attend church she was to wear regular school clothes,thus singling her out for the rest of her classmates and teachers. Yeah, NOT good. See where I’m going with this? Think I’m done?
You would be incorrect in that assumption,but thanks for asking.
After the musical show, students were then ordered to pick up the bibles and read from it.To follow along with the preaching. No big deal right? This is a public school event!
Okay. I’m done.
No I’m not. Because this religious indoctrination at this public school event kicked up a notch.
The students were then asked if they had accepted Jesus.If they hadnt, “Here’s your chance now!” I expect this kind of peer pressure from Drug Dealers, not from my childs school!
My child is Ten years old.
Have I said anything? No. This event is only a small part of the a bigger problem here.
Why havent I said anything? Called someone out on the carpet for this? Complained?
Simple.
My 10 year old innocent child would be persecuted.Looked down on. Made an example of. Called a “heathen” or whatever is the newest catch phrase from the religious fundamentals.
Not only that, I wouldnt want to walk outside my house someday and see a cross burning in my yard,my dog found dead or eggs on my house.
curious,
Please keep posting your well- thought out comments.
I love nothing more than to read “John’s” VERY well thought out and “matter of fact” and very informative answers.
Looks like he “checkmated” another!
Curious:
Beginning in the late nineteenth century, white supremacist Ku Klux Klan members in the Southern United States engaged in arson, beatings, cross burning, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, and whipping against African Americans and other social or ethnic minorities.
During the twentieth century, members of extremist groups such as the Army of God began executing attacks against abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.A number of terrorist attacks, including the Centennial Olympic Park bombing during the 1996 Summer Olympics, were carried out by individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements; including the Aryan Nations and the Lambs of Christ. A group called Concerned Christians unsuccessfully planned to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999, believing that their deaths would “lead them to heaven.”[
The Army of God (AOG) is a loose network of individuals and groups connected by ideological affinity and the determination to use violence to end the legal practice of abortion in the United States. Its affiliates consist of right-wing Christian militants who have committed violent acts against abortion providers. Acts of anti-abortion violence increased in the mid-1990s culminating in a series of bombings by Eric Rudolph, whose targets included two abortion clinics, a gay and lesbian night club, and the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. Letters Rudolph sent to newspapers claiming responsibility in the name of the Army of God focused attention on the issue of right-wing extremism.
From Reconstruction at the end of the civil war to the end of the civil rights movement, the Ku Klux Klan used threats, violence, arson, and murder to further its white-supremacist, anti-semitic, anti-Catholic agenda.
Of course I’m talking off the top of my head. What part of the body are talking from? Calling me a radical is kind of silly,taking into consideration I am a retired Investigator. But if it makes you feel better to attempt to malign me with hyperbole, have at it. I will be here to counter everything you say that is false,untrue and baseless.
Andy- if your truly a christian, then you would know their not christians.
Re: Radical Christians
See bombing of abortion clinics.
John- you’re talking out of your head, i didn’t say anything about george washington. hte only radicals are the ones like you who are trying to get it stopped. also, tell me one christian who has tied a bomb to themselves or others , or crashed planes in the name of our GOD. Who’s the radicals?
John
I am a Christian and very embarrassed by some of the things posted on here by fellow Christians. Using Bible verses as weapons for rebuttal can sometimes come across as arrogant and counterproductive. I think there’s a lot of truth to the things you’ve said (especially the Al Quaeda and fanatical Christian parallels) and personally, it doesn’t bother me a great deal that there are laws banning religion within schools. I completely understand where non-Christians are uncomfortable with a certain prayer or reference to God.
I think Christians are getting riled up because the next step is banning public prayer or religious expressions in any place besides the home/church. I don’t think anyone welcomes the day when that happens – so to someone who said “bring on the bullets”, there’s a difference between accepting a somber fate and welcoming it (God bless you if you are so brave when that day comes). So I apologize on behalf of all Christians for this agression toward any of your personal believes – it’s the natural human reaction anytime someone is squeezed from a “freedom” or their comfort zone. I would like it if there were more freedom for teachers to give their opinions of ANY religion in schools, but I understand why it doesn’t exist. I hope the government or other groups don’t take it to the extreme.
The reason why it doesn’t bother me as a Christian to have these current laws: through what channel will a person more likely be introduced to the love of Jesus Christ – through a prayer in a crowded classroom? or through my relationship with an individual person? There is no law that can hide a person’s love for God.
This is to EMD and curious:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion”
~George Washington quote
George Washington,General of the Army and Americas first President.
Look it up please. Google is your friend.
I offer this as an American. I do so for the many Americans of ALL faiths who have been persecuted by religious radicals,cultists,liars and sanctimonious fanatics.
Oh yes, one more thing….
“Checkmate”
Please try and Have a nice day.
The teacher that bows their head or wears their cross will be the teacher I want for my child. Not for their religious beliefs, because I have yet to hear a teacher preach to a child with any religion or belief, but because of their strength and integrity. Teaching is their job, but their belief is their way of life. What right do we have to take this from them. I think both sides have blown this out of proportion. I truly believe our teachers will still bow their heads in that moment of silence, and for that I commend them!
Matt: “They are paying the price of their own, zealous, extremist, hypocritical fanaticism, and persecution.”
But, Matt! Look at the price God payed. Who in their right mind would NOT be zealous, extreme and fanatical who sincerely believe in The Son of God, and what He did for us all. Have you ever read the Bible for yourself? Have you ever researched this? One who was perfect in every way was beaten beyond recognition as a man. He was not hanging neatly and clean from a beautiful silver, gold or sanded wooden cross. It was rough timber and long nails. Neither did He have on a loin cloth. He was stark naked and bleeding from head to toe. Oh! And the crown of thorns was made of long and strong thorns and pressed onto/into His head. Other’s spittle was on His face, and he had been whipped with a leather whip, in which were embedded glass, metal and other things that literally TORE off the Flesh of the One who loved and loves us still, in spite of our condition. It was BECAUSE of OUR SIN condition that He laid down His life for us. He had to push up on the nails in his feet to breath, and then drop back down and swap the excruciating pain in His feet for excruciating pain in His wrist arteries and bones. Have you ever had to have blood drawn from an artery in your wrist? It is excruciating. It is not like a venous withdrawal. You should try it sometime. He was hanging by that pain. He did this for YOU, Matt, and for me. By one man, all men die, but by the death of One innocent, man all can live. In the midst of all this, He forgave us all. How can anyone not love such a man? And, how can anyone speak ill of Him, or His followers if, in their mind, they know there is a “chance” it could be true. I once wanted to see to believe, but I am so glad I finally believed and saw. He is real, Matt. It is possible to know Him. I could tell you how good He is a thousand times, but unless you taste and see for yourself, you cannot know why there are fanatic zealots. Have you ever really really loved someone? How zealous are you about sporting events or other things of this world?
Matt: “I was one of the persecuted. Yes, I was singled out BY STAFF and treated with contempt for not being afraid to express my religious and spiritual beliefs.” THIS was persecution?!!!???
I would be glad to sit and listen to you express your religious and spiritual beliefs. I probably had some of the same ones a one time. Please don’t EVER judge my Savior by any mortal man. There was, is, and never will be ANY fault in Him. As for hypocrites.. .. They have always been around. The Word teaches that there is a remnant that really follow Christ. Narrow is the way.
This ban doesn’t surprise me. In my opinion, there should be a healthy middle ground where EVERYONE is able to express, have, and practice their own beliefs.
However, many teachers in certain Santa Rosa schools have been forcing Protestant Christian beliefs down peoples’ throats for years, and persecuting Catholics, Pagans, Athiest, and Jews who attend the schools.
I know, I was one of the persecuted. Yes, I was singled out BY STAFF and treated with contempt for not being afraid to express my religious and spiritual beliefs.
They are paying the price of their own, zealous, extremist, hypocritical fanatiscism, and persecution.
John, if your not a christian, you can’t say anything to me. You need to read that scripture and others to get the true meaning. The BIBLE is not 1 scripture it is many. I did not threaten anyone.I told you a biblical promise. OH YEAH, I am very confident in my faith. I will put you on our prayer list @ church.
Oops!! This has nothing to do with free speech!! If it did, teachers could tell students there is no god, Christianity is the devil’s religion, or anything else you wold consider blasphemous, and get away with it in the name of “free speech.” Teachers CAN’T do any of those things because using their power as school officials to promote or denigrate religion violates the constitution’s Establishment Clause. It’s very simply, really.
mom,
GOD GAVE HIS SON TO DIE ON CALVERY SO THAT YOU AND I COULD BE SAVED. THANK GOD WE ARE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB (JESUS
BEING THE LAMB OF GOD)FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE FREELY GAVE HIS ONLY BEFOTTEN SON THAT WHOEVER BELIEIVETH ON HIM MIGHT HAVE LIFE AND HAVE IT MORE ABUDUNTLY.TO THOUSE OF YOU WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD THEIR IS TRULY A PLACE FOR YOU .IT IS CALLED HELL. THE BIBLE SAYS ITS WHERE THE WORM DIETH NOT. YOU WILL NOT DIE EITHER BUT WILL BURN FOR ETERNAL LIFE.(THAT MEANS FOR EVER AND EVER ………………………………………………….AMEN
WHY CAN’T WE PUT GOD BACK IN SCHOOLS?,PRAYES?,MONEY?THE PLEDGE OF ALIGIENCE?.,AND KEEP HIM IN OUR HEART AND LIFEFOREVER?
The Truth & The Truth’s Daughter,
I did hear God speak through you when you said, “I see more atheist stand for what they believe than Christians. So why do you and all the other religions feel so threatened?”
It takes courage to say things that many in “the family” do not want to hear. I hope we keep hearing through you. I hope you and the others in our family, stick around and stand every chance they get. I hope that the ones that are sleeping wake up. And, I pray that I stay awake this time.
A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service to all of those who still don’t get it, I now offer you the story of why religious tought in public school might pose a grand disastor in just a few paragraphs, which is all you Really need.
Here we go:
The religious zealots want to preach religion in the public schools because they believe America was founded by religion by Christians. The zealots believe it is thier birthright.
There’s just one thing about that: No it was NOT.
It’s a myth,a lie and brainwashing.
America was founded by many people of many different faiths.
Not all the framers were religious in the least bit. Some were Christians. Some were Deists. They came to America for freedom. Religious freedoms, to practice the religions they wanted to and not the Church of Englands forced teachings… Freedom FROM religion was also one of those freedoms that seem lost on the zealouts amongst us..
Jesus Christ as an example, is not mentioned once in or Constitution. Feel free to look it up. Again, Jesus is not mentioned once. Nor is the mention of being “Born Again” While it ,amongst thousands of words in the bible was never used in Christianity until Billy Graham in a sermon coined the term from the bible.So then being ‘Born Again’ are like the words “Wiccan and Kwanzaa”. Both are brand new words. Feel free to google.
We must always be on guard against religious extremism. 2001 is really not that long ago. It was then that religious extremists flew two airliners into the World Trade center,one into the Pentagon and the other was flown into the ground in Shanksville Pa.
Who were these religious extremists?
Glad you asked.
They were members of Al Qaeda living amongst the Taliban.
Being taught in relgious schools called madrasahs . Fundamental religious schools. Prayer in school. Indoctination and brainwashing schools.
Therefore, madrasah literally means a place where religious learning/teaching is done.
Curious*
Not confident enough in your own faith, you must resort to childish threats or fairytale biblical curses. How very Christian of you.
Called me inspired, but I have some advice for you. Maybe God himself directed me to show you this scripture.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your OWN salvation with fear and trembling.
Phillipians 2:12
Dont thank me, I’m a giver. It’s what I do and what I’m all about.
God will bless you Michelle, and everyone else that calls upon His name.
John, GOD has been known to watch out for stupid and ignorant people,but you must know, he will not be mocked.
The Truth & The Truth’s Daughter,
Note: 1 Corinthians 1:29-31
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John,
I love your name. John was a disciple whom Jesus loved in a special way.
In answer to your question………..No sir. Personally, I do not believe so. I believe they are following instructions and are tender plants in a greenhouse who are in a controlled environment, for now. They need prayer that they will soon be transplanted into good and fertile ground, and take a good root system with them.
Thank you for asking, so that now you know they are not presently the ones I was referring to. If you really desire to know who the 120 are, you have but to read Acts 1:15, and follow up on what happened with them in Acts 2. May God bless you with understanding of who they are.
The Truth & The Truth’s Daughter,
Thank God that He gives gifts to His own who ask Him, like He says He will in Luke 11. He gives to …..and speaks through.
I expect to hear Him through you real soon, and I look forward to that.
Right on. Looking forward to it. But I think I already saw them. Are they the clowns in Pensacola on every corner screaming bible verses at cars as they pass?
If they are the 120, then we have already met.
Then there is always Dr. Dino himself. One of the 120 in prison?
Back on topic…..
Plenty of Christian schools in the South. Perhaps all of your kids would be better off transferring to them?
E.M.D., I have not a clue as to who you are, but my daughter and I love to read your comments. You seem to have a lot of knowledge and wisdom. Keep those comments coming.
No one is saying that you can’t have God in your life, or pray, they are saying you can’t do it at school or school functions.
And, well spoken, caring christians that are posting on this and “other popular stories” think that they have the right to DOWN other people and the way that they think. They call them “dissenters”.
Then they post all about GOD, then when speaking to a certain person it all of a sudden becomes G-D. What is up with that???????
All the posts by the “believer’s” sound more angry and “judgemental” than any of the others.
Acts 1:15
“And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)”
John…………….Perhaps you have not yet met those that are of the 120.
But, you are about to.
God, Please protect me from your followers.
Amen.
I wonder if we could learn something from Deuteronomy 6.
To all you atheists and non believers who are trying to take our prayers out of our schools, what are you so threatened by, if you don’t believe in our GOD? You may be an atheist now,but you won’t be on judgement day, when you face our GOD.
My 2 cents, tell me the difference in bringing all other beliefs like kwanza,etc. and not MERRY CHRISTMAS. If they won’t let us pray, then they need to leave other ones out. THOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME is what you will find in the BIBLE and I say if no one likes it they can go back where they came from. AMERICA does not need them.
Everyone who has a job, has to do what the company rules say. If they say “This is a non-smoking facility” then you get in your car on your lunch and you leave the facility and smoke. You do this because you want to keep your job.
When the place you work, says that you may say “happy holidays”, but you can’t say “merry christmas” because of the diversity of the employees, then you tell everyone “happy holiday”, because you want to keep your job.
When a teacher is not allowed to “pray” at any school function, then you don’t pray at any school function because you want to keep your job.
If you break the rules you get fired!!! PERIOD…
What makes this rule any different than the “no smoking” rule.
You have a right to smoke, but you don’t have the right to do it and FORCE other people and children to breathe in your smoke. So you do it in a place that you aren’t breaking rules….SAME with prayer…..
I cannot believe that the American People are allowing this nonsense to continue. This Country was founded on the Belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. I have yet to read an article from anywhere, saying that an Atheist or (non-believers)have been forced to bow his/her head in Prayer, or even to salute the American Flag.
If they do not want to Pray.. that is their choice, but I WILL bow to my Lord and Savior, any place and any time.
Why do we give our children freedom of prayer but not our teachers? If we want our children to follow our example then shouldn’t we show them how to stand up for a belief no matter what it is, and that by living in the LAND OF THE FREE… we have the freedom to bow our heads for whatever reason? Shame on our government!!
It would appear that atheist are in control of our public schools.
To make matters worse, if indeed they can be, the atheist are a religious
group of their own. They simply have faith that God does not exist. What they
don’t realize is a christian has everything to gain and nothing to lose in their
belief and the atheist has everything to lose and nothing to gain by theirs. They
rely only on their own thoughts and ideas as to God and his people. The truth
is a fool says there is no God and depends on his own intelegence.
OH my God….. Have mercy on those who are so ignorant of Your Goodness and Mercy. What is this Judge thinking,,, does he not handle ,,, IN God WE TRUST,, I dont care that he is an ignorant Judge headed for a fate worse than death,, why should he care that I am a christian,, headed for the streets of gold… Wake up America,,, We have so many more problems than some, man , and his courts deciding what is right and wrong with prayer,,,, Mother of KIA Iraqi Freedom , 2003. God lent me this child for 32 years… he took him home Nov. 8, 2003. He believed in his country , fought for the rights of Americans,,, and Loved his God. Fought for Him as well…. God ,, please bless America again,,, and God bless you Michelle Winkler,, stay strong and know that many are right there with you,, but most of all,, the Lord is on your side.
I really don’t understand why it can’t be “each it’s own”. This was not a logical step to take away peoples right to worship God. All it did was put prejudice in action. Don’t be suprised if segregation comes back. And of course I wonder what happened to “the land of the free”. And if prayer is not allowed in schools, well money has “In God We Trust” written on it so, don’t let schools have money in them. And since the judge doesn’t like God, take all his money from him. And lastly, there are more important things to worry about in the school systems. Drugs, guns, teen pregnancies. And on and on. Try doing something bout those things!
Would non Christians please understand no one is trying to force anything on them. I have never seen anyone be forced to pray, or pledge allegiance.Why should Christians be forced to stop? I see more atheist stand for what they believe than Christians. So why do you and all the other religions feel so threatened? Why should Christians live in fear of prosecution for expressing their religion, when all others are accepted and encouraged in our society? If you want to stand beside me and pray to your belief , while I pray to my God , by all means , go right ahead. I’m not going to stop you or say anything to you about it. So please let me and my fellow Christians do the same.
I don’t care the consequences of expressing my religion. They can make me leave, they can keep me away, they can say “We’re going to shoot you.” Well, bring on the bullets! It will happen one day, it is in the scriptures. Why postpone it? Just means Judgement Day draws nearer. But I won’t stand by while my religion is suppressed and all others are made to be more important. Christians have as much right TO pray as other religions have NOT to pray.
God will Bless you Michelle Winkler.
To all you who don’t pray and don’t believe, you’re time will come and you WILL face judgment from GOD, and you WILL bow and pray for HIS MERCY and FORGIVENESS, but then it WILL BE TOO LATE. THEREFORE, IF YOU WANT TO GO TO HELL, LEAVE OUR KIDS OUT OF IT.
I can truly speak for a lot of my Esc. Co. public educator colleagues. I know them well, and they know me. We will not give “sermons” or “sermonettes” in class, but when we are asked about our beliefs and religious customs from a student, we WILL answer. All Christians should come to the forefront to challenge this ruling. This is an attack on Christian freedoms and freedom of speech as I have never seen it before. If I, as a teacher, wear a cross on my necklace, what is that to anyone? That is my right. I wear crosses or angels on my lapels almost every day. If I want to bow my head in prayer, that is my right. If people do not wake up and fight, you will not have the kinds of school teachers that our area is so fortunate to have. Don’t leave your school officials out there fighting it alone. Come together. Unite and let’s over rule this attack on the very foundation on which our country was based.
Also, to Ms. Winkler, we are behind you.
Well, that is Good News indeed, for this is a secular nation and it must remain so, with so many different cultures living here, peacefully, side by side.
Why should Christians get a leg-up in public places after all?
How many Christians would be quite so enthusiastic if Muslims, Jews and Buddhists were taking school prayers and filling our schools up with their religious garbage?
How would Christians feel if atheists controlled the school assembly and forced students to recite anti-religious material?
Religion, not only Christianity, has no place on public display and should remain in the private sphere where it belongs.
And, by the same token, anti-religion has no place in the school either.
We are a secular nation, and should be proud of that fact.
Jim Bishop
Austin Texas
What makes one worldview (atheism or a lack of belief in God)) more important than another? Why are people free to express their *lack of belief* in God freely but others may not express their belief?
There is no such thing as a “secular society”. We all operate off of some type of belief or worldview, even if it is a belief that nothing exists after this life. Why is that given more freedom of expression than a belief that God created us and seeks a relationship with us?
It is sad that the teachers’ and administrators’ freedoms will be trampled on for the sake of a minority that insist that their theology (their lack of belief , their humanistic focus) should be forced on others. That is no freedom and exactly what the founders of this country wanted to avoid (freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion, as is often misrepresented!)
And I agree, some people will be surprised when they meet the Creator that they did not believe in. I hope they reconsider before that time.