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Lawsuit Stops Organized Baccalaureate Services At Northview; School Turns To Community For Help
February 26, 2009
For the first time in the history of Northview High School, the school will not sponsor a Baccalaureate service. The change is due to decisions made by the Escambia County School District following a judge’s decision in favor of the the ACLU in a lawsuit against the Santa Rosa County School District.
A federal judge issued preliminary injunction against any policy or practice that promotes prayer or religion in the Santa Rosa County School District. The American Civil Liberties Union has also requested documents concerning prayer from Escambia County Schools.
“As part of a district-wide change in procedure, to be implemented with the graduating class of 2009, high schools will neither sponsor, direct, nor organize future Baccalaureate services for graduation,” Northview High Principal Gayle Weaver said.
But the policy does not necessarily mean an end to Baccalaureate services for Northview Seniors.
Baccalaureate services may still be organized and sponsored by the members of the senior class, parents, community leaders, pastors or other interested persons. The school itself is not allowed to organize the service.
Luke Killam, the NHS senior class president, and other class officers met with Northview administrators Wednesday morning to hear about the district’s decision and to begin planning initial steps to assume responsibility for Baccalaureate.
After that initial between administrators and class officers, a meeting of the entire senior class was called Wednesday to explain the situation and ask for assistance.
“Northview High School is very optimistic that the parents, community leaders, pastors, etc. will come together and will work with the officers and their Baccalaureate committee to make decisions relative to a place to hold the services, when to hold the services and who will be a part of the program,” Weaver said.
“The administration, faculty, and staff of Northview High School have been proud to sponsor all of the Baccalaureate services since the school’s inaugural 1996 graduating class. It is believed that the Senior Class of 2009 will rise to the challenge of having an off-campus Baccalaureate services and will not only have a wonderful service but also one which may serve as a model for future years,” Weaver said.
Supporters of Baccalaureate in Santa Rosa County have launched a website to assist in the understanding of their efforts. The site is www.gotyourbacc.com and may be of assistance and guidance to individuals, Weaver added.
Pictured above: The Class of 2008 Baccalaureate service at Northview High School. Pictured inset: First Baptist Church of Bratt Pastor Gary Wieborg delivers the address at last year’s Northview Baccalaureate service. NorthEscambia.com file photos, click to enlarge.
Comments
43 Responses to “Lawsuit Stops Organized Baccalaureate Services At Northview; School Turns To Community For Help”
i am sorry this happend our prayers are with both families casey wooten
“Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven………………….
Matt. 10:32
Jewish neighbor,
I regret that my opinion of the established voluntary Baccalaureate service is offensive to you. Your freedom of religion is important to me. You noted that in history your people were persecuted by Nazis. I understand that the Nazis were atheist socialist. History of the ACLU seems to also reflect the views of atheist socialist. Here’s a quote from their founder Rodger Baldwin, “I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and sole control of those who produced the wealth: communism is the goal.” I think that all of us could agree that we are against that objective.
Perhaps it is the Escambia County School District that is being a bit reactionary or even a bit fear-based here. I am not so sure that the case of the Baccalaureate Service at North View fits the same model as the recently famous court decision in Santa Rosa County.
I am certainly no attorney, much less a judge; but I read recently about a 1969 US Supreme Court Decision ( Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District), about students First Amendment Rights being upheld – and it confuses me — but then I am old and easily confused.
Someone help me out here; Is a Baccalaureate Service considered to be under the protection of a1st Ammendment decision by the U.S. Supreme Court, or is it “any policy or practice that promotes prayer or religion . . .” as viewed by a lower court?
Makes me go “Hmmmmmmmmm”?
i am a senior at northview and recently did a position paper on church and state, where i showed situations that are far worse than a VOLUNTARY baccalaureate service. i think this is ridiculous, but i am extremely proud of the way our class is handling it and know that our service will probably be the best yet.
It is sad when our Seniors who are only 17 or 18 years old act more mature about this issue then our adults! This is not about grammar, spelling, or even when laws were or were not established. This is about our kids and we need to be coming up with solutions to help them. Our seniors are trying to figure out solutions and they need our help! They are not sitting around wondering when this law was written, or who started it, or how to spell legal terminology. I came up with renting the gym for the event… does anyone have any other ideas?!?
Oh crap, I just noticed some punctuation errors in my post. Hope I make it to heaven!
Observer, I totally agree with you and with Religious Freedom. I am a Christian and I do not attend church in my community because they seem to be full of “holier than thou”people . And yes, they are judgemental. This service should have been held in a church a long time ago. That is where it belongs, just like all other religious functions. We don.t go to school to have church, we go to school to learn. If you are firm in your faith you would’nt need to voice your prayers out loud. A prayer, unless you want to make it public in church, is a private matter between you and God. Not for you to make others feel like they are somehow not as good of a person as you are. Like some who have posted on this website. This community needs to clean up around their own back porches before they preach to others. And how childish to point out someone’s mispelled words! Or, are you just being a “good Christian”?
Chuck – I just picked up on the last misspelled word in your post. You haven’t spelled amendment right yet. And for the record, the word is rebuttal.
It is a common mistake to point out other’s flaws and not see our own.
The phrase “separation of church and state” is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. It has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court. In other words, it has become a part of our laws by judicial precedent (also known as “case law”).
I hope this rebuttal is sufficient.
Alan… I’ve noticed that when people don’t have a decent rebutal to a post the resort to spelling corrections and for the record I misspelled separation the second time also. I’m surprised it was missed. The point of my post was to show that a few people need to read up on their ammendment rights and not regurgitate what thay have heard. I was judging no-one , simply calling for a few to do alittle background work. Sorry if you were offended.
Hey Chuck…you know, usually when I accuse someone of an offense, I find myself guilty of the very same offense. You have accused people of being uneducated posters and yet you spelled THEIR wrong.
We would do well to let God take care of the accusations and judgments…I know that I for one am WAY too flawed to judge other individuals. We also don’t help the cause of Christ when we act in a way that wouldn’t honor Him…but it is all the more offensive when we do it while defending our rights to prayer!
Here we go again with the “separation of church and state” junk. Can anybody show me anywhere in the ammendments where it states this? No? I did’nt think so. The actual language in the ammendment for the uneducated posters reads as follows. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free excercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of the press , or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of greivances” . Please read this twice and explain where it states anywhere about “seperation of church and state”. This simply means that government cannot dictate a certain religion to be practiced by the people. Put in simpler terms, a government entity (ie the school board) cannot endorse one religion over another. This is made so that the jewish gentleman that posted earlier and people of other faiths are not ,for lack of a better word, discriminated against religiously in the school setting. I’m not happy with it either but that’s how we set up the rules of our country and we have to abide by it. There is no law stating that people of same faiths can’t gather and have a baccalaureate service at the place of thier choosing.
Steve – I am Jewish so please tell me why I should be forced to listen to a prayer to Jesus at a ball game or school activity?
I take my kids to NWE to play ball not pray? I send my kids to public school for an education not a lesson in religion.
if I wanted my kids to get an education in religion I would send them to private school. I pray, and worship just like so many others in this community do. why should I be forced to agree with “Jesus ” in school? I don’t make anyone else worship like me, so don’t make me worship like you. I personally do not want my children exposed to “the gospel of Jesus Christ shared in a public school” as this does not follow my religion. I respect your faith, all I ask is for others to respect mine. Unless the school is going to recite the Birkhot HaShachar (a Jewish prayer) then all organized prayers should be left somewhere other than public school. The Jews have been persecuted many times throughout history, I guess this is just the latest chapter of my religious persecution, only this time it is in my own backyard not Nazi Germany!
Nick, why do you need the names of the ACLU members published? Are you going to form an angry mob and go after them?
These people, members of the ACLU are doing a job. A job no different than the police, firefighters, medical professionals, and about any other occupation you can think of. The ACLU is around to protect citizens and their civil liberties. The ACLU is a sort of watchdog group. They are the good guys. Sometimes they do things we may not agree with, but like somebody already said try to understand why they do it. I know the community will assume the responsibility of providing the Baccalaureate ceremony at an off campus location. I also know it will be better than the school sponsored event as there will be much love and community involvement put into this. We all need to understand what the laws are and as citizens it is our duty to obey the laws. No one can take away your personal relationship with God. You can loose everything in this life (money, possessions, friends, family, anything) and still no one can take your faith. We only loose our faith if we choose to abandon it. I myself will never abandon my faith as it is what gets me through each and every day.
It seems to me that we have alot of hippocrits in our neck of the woods….here’s what I mean. First and foremost, I am a firm believer in God and having the freedom to express my beliefs freely, so it upset me when we were told that our children cannot have this program at school anymore. However, I agree with the fact that even though our children cannot express their religious beliefs in school, or at a school sponsered program, they cannot completely take prayer out of the school. I also believe that our community is not above the law (no matter how much we may disagree). Having this said, it really gets my goat that people in my community get so riled up when they take such an interest in this situation but turn a blind eye to all of the other laws broken daily in our community. Everyone needs to take a stand against those that hunt when they aren’t suppose to, or drink and drive (especially with children), don’t wear seatbelts, speed, etc…you get the point. These are things that happen in our community everyday and this is what alot of our children are learning (maybe not directly from their parents but from their community)!!!! We choose to live out here for different reasons, but I’m sure that most would agree that one of those reasons is because we relish the idea of our children growing up in a safe, good, clean environment. Well HELLO….it’s not as good and safe as we try to believe. We loose loved ones (often young) way to often in our community. We not only need to teach them to pray, we also need to teach them to abide by the law!
What part about sending my kids to and supporting with my tax dollars an atheistic school system should I be okay with? The freedom that I want is not only to pray at home with my family and attend church sponsored events but also the freedom to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ shared in a public school sponsored event or even a public prayer in Jesus name before a ball game. That may be asking allot but it is the freedom that we just gave up. I wonder how many non-believing teens attend school sponsored events that will not attend church sponsored events.
So proud of Luke and other 2009 class members for stepping up and planning it on their own.
Capt Mike stated “The ACLU should not be able to dictate to the rest of us that we can’t pray when and where we want”.
That is my point throughout all of this…we seem to be “all up in arms” about the ACLU when in reality, they can NOT dictate to you, me or our children when and where we pray. Think about it, how on earth could they?! You might not be able to voice your prayers out loud, but we serve an awesome God that does not need our prayers to be audible. In fact, I could make an argument that our most heartfelt prayers to God are silent, between us and Him!
We should be upset that our kids weren’t praying before this ruling and still aren’t praying and aren’t being taught to pray at home (much less at school). As far as the baccalaureate service being held at a local church and led by students…this is a GOOD thing to come out of this. I would much rather see our faith community hosting non-denominational services than having them led by our schools (which are led by our government). I personally do not want the government in religion!
Now let’s all embrace this opportunity to host the service and support our children and remind them that we are WAY too blessed by our Lord and Savior to be defeated by the ACLU. Let’s don’t have a defeatist attitude…we have only been defeated if you allow yourself to be defeated. GOD IS STILL ON HIS THRONE AND GOD IS STILL GOOD ALL THE TIME!!
There are members of this dangerous ACLU living in our community. If you know one of them, publish their name. One is Susan Watson of Pensacola.
They do more harm to our way of life than Iraq or Iran. Let’s all put bumper stickers on our automobiles saying this is a dangerous organization to our country.
The separation of church and state is about the government not forcing the populace to a particular religion under penalty of prison or worse. It was not meant to stop prayer, keep the 10 Commandments from display, etc. If an individual doesn’t want to pray or read the 10 Commandments, they don’t have to. That is their prerogative. They can pray to whatever they want to. Or not pray at all. The ACLU should not be able to dictate to the rest of us that we can’t pray when and where we want. What I feel about the ACLU is for another time. Best of luck class of 2009.
I don’t know if anyone else remembers how it was that prayer was taken out of the school system but while reading everyone’s comments it came to me. An atheist woman by the name of Madeline Murry O’Hare did not want her son to be expose to Christian prayer in school. She got a lawyer to initiate a law suit and that is how prayer was taken away from our children while they are at school. Several years ago I read a story in a news paper that Mrs. O’Hare had disappeared and no one had any idea where she was, also a large sum of money disappeared with her. The ironic part of this story is her son, the very one she didn’t want exposed to prayer, became a minister of the gospel and was spreading the Word. How amazing is our God?
Excuse me but is anyone out there aware that there was a law put into effect areally long time ago to separate Church and State. I don’t agrre with the kids not being able to pray and have their “bach” ceremonies at the school but we have been very lucky for it to have gone on as long as it has.These laws were created for good reason and now we in the north end will have to comply just like all the other God believers in the state of Florida. The schools in Pensacola have to have their ceremonies off school grounds.
This is one reason the world is the way it is BAD SHAPE. DAM PRISON even has prayer.
The Northview class of 09 will overcome this and prevail. God will prevail.
My last comment to this sorry episode.
Northview tell all the know it alls that don’t like prayers in school or at Baccalaureate services that you are not one to duck down, turn your head, choke duringt a panic situation or bury your head in the sand type of humans.
Test this Judge. Tell him, As my ‘ol Grandaddy would say when he was driving his old truck and someone would pass him flying, “Go Ahead Fool Hell Ain’t Half Full”. See what he is made out of. Go ahead and have your services the way you were doing it. Test them. Ask them to step up to the plate.
Everyone in Escambia County Fl. and elsewhere will follow you to the jail house, me included
Allan, I totally agree with your comments. My children are taught to pray at home, where it should be taught!! Prayer will NEVER be taken out of schools as long as we teach our children the word of God and the power of Prayer. They just can not have teacher led prayer, but from my understanding a student can lead a prayer and I encourage them to do so. I hope Northview can partner with a local church to provide a service that can start a new tradition and be planned by the student body. This is our time to step up and turn this negative into a PRAISE!!
Could the senior group “rent” the gym to use for bacc. That way it is not NHS putting it together, but it is a group of individuals with no affiliation to the school staff. I would think NHS could rent out the gym for a small amount say… $10 just as other schools have done. I know Atmore rents out their auditorium for different town events? It would be even better if after renting it out NHS donated the money earned to the upcoming senior class.. then rents the gym to that class for the same amount?!? There are always ways around things…. Just a thought.
Rhonda G. — I’m pretty sure you will see a local church put together a service at the church with the students in charge. We’ll post a story when they do.
a church needs to step up and provide the service @ the church.
It seems the bottom line is find another place and sponsor to do this ceremony / event. This is a time honored tradition and should continue and as always should be voluntary. I think the school board has been forced to draw hard lines regarding this issue because of the interests of the few. But here in America we seem to protect the few more than the many. (minority versus majority) this area is predominately a Christian community. We are ok with this ceremony as we celebrate and rejoice our Christian faith. Having said that, here is the other side:
Please understand no one is trying to take prayer away from anyone. What is happening is a mass migration to the political correct zone. This zone is kind of like the Twilight Zone only more Religious minority friendly. Like the Twilight Zone it does not always make sense to us, but always makes us think. What is prayer? who do we pray to? Why should the non Christian community be forced to listen to or participate in a prayer that refers to Jesus? Jesus is not their God. Prayers that refer to a higher power or (God as a general term) are usually accepted as ok by those faiths that are “other than Christian.” This way the Hindu, Jewish, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, and many other religions are not being forced to pray to Jesus or recognize Jesus as “God.” For all the Christians out there what do the ten commandments say about this? More specifically the first commandment? (for those who do not know it is about worshiping any god before me) well does this seem to make more sense now. other religions have similar text, some use the same text (Jewish faith) with a different interpretation. how are we any better to force the worship of our god on someone else? we do not want anyone telling us to worship a different god? do we? that is what specific prayer that references Jesus does. how many of us Christians attend church at the Islamic temple? I know I don’t go there because I disagree with the message. I choose not to go. that is my right. the graduating seniors have a right to go to this ceremony what ever their religious belief. If the school sponsors it, the ceremony needs to be non denominational.
Having said that, Both sides are represented here. “True wisdom does not come from always agreeing with the differences of others, it comes from understanding why we have those differences.” My own quote, feel free to use it.
what right do these people have to get right of the Lord Jesus Christ in our children graduation. With out the Lord these children will be lost.We should all stand up and let it be know that NHS is a God fearing school and that just some
warp human being can make this all happen . We all need to stand up and not let god out of this if it means that each have a bacc. May the Lord Jesus be with eash and every student and make a stand for CHRIST.
Okay…someone please explain to me…how has anyone taken prayer out of school. Our kids need to be taught that there is not a power capable of taking away their prayers…certainly not a federal judge!
As far as the community and local body of believers organizing a baccalaureate service, that sounds more scriptural to me anyway. Why wouldn’t the local faith community be the people that organize a baccalaureate service?
Let the ACLU waste their time, energy and money stopping prayer in school. It will be an exercise in futility for them. Then again, it will rob them of their time, energy and money…not necessarily a bad thing.
1 Thessalonians 5:17 states that we are to pray without ceasing. Prayer is not just words or thought…but it goes much deeper to the posture of our hearts toward God. Prayer is a two-way street…when we are listening for God’s voice, that is prayer. How can an individual or group of people take that away from you?
Teach your children to pray at home and they WILL pray at school. Our prayer time with God is not an event…it is something that we should be doing continually.
“t”, I disagree…this judge did not force a certain way of life on me…in fact, this judge’s ruling will have NO affect on my life whatsoever. I do agree with you that attendance at the baccalaureate services should be voluntary…God doesn’t force Himself on anyone and neither should we.
I am proud to see the 2009 Christian seniors standing up for what they believe in. Several pastors from the Jay area are organizing a prayer ceremony to be held around Jay High School on a Saturday afternoon in March. They are following all the rules and regulations so that the event will be perfectly legal. They are hoping for a huge turnout in order to show that we as Christians will not sit back and do nothing while the ACLU takes away students’ rights and privileges. I will try and post the actual day and time later so people who wish to attend will know when it is.
I do not understand why the “non” prayer/religious people get their way while the people who choose religion must be pushed back to olden times where they must “hide and pray”. And I believe schools started going downhill when prayer was taken out of the schools. I think it should be split down the middle. If you don’t approve of baccalaureate just simply do not show up. All this judge did was force a certain way of life on others.
But we are still somewhat missing the point here…I am fairly certain that we don’t bring glory and honor to God by suggesting that we “line ‘em up and shoot ‘em”. Even if we are suggesting it in humor.
What we need to do is pray for them as well and pray that their heart will be turned toward God and that they will seek His face. WE will never change their heart, but GOD certainly can.
“During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission”. Hebrews 5:7 NIV
It is sad that we allow a few to control many. Micky these are the ones that need to be lined up and SHOT.
Keep you heads up Seniors and overcome. As God is good ‘ALL THE TIME’ and he will be good to you. Keep the faith no matter what the Judges (sometimes foolish and wrong sided decisions) throw at us.
The kids have my prayers and my support. The one thing that this federal judge has failed to realize…he (nor anyone else) has the power to take God or prayer out of the schools. Our Christian children take God with them everywhere they go (including school) and until the judge figures out a way to control our thoughts, then each one of our students can be (and should be) in continual prayer with God each day…including their school time.
There are plenty of churches in the area that are capable of hosting the seniors and holding a baccalaureate service.
“…if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land”. 2 Chronicles 7:14 NIV
The above passage holds the key to HEALING our land…let’s all join in prayer and agreement to humble ourselves and through prayer seek His face AND turn from our wicked ways…THEN we can stand on the promise of God to receive forgiveness and healing!!
Mickey — It was U.S. District Court Judge Casey Rodgers. We reported who he was in a story we ran about the actual injunction back on January 13:
http://www.northescambia.com/?p=5961
northescambia.com who was this federal judge? Was he afraid to give it out or were YA”LL afraid to ask? My dad told me one time that every lawyer, every federal judge, every doctor, every insurance salesman need to be lined up on the street evey morning and every other one shot down and we still would not get rid of all the thug ones. Can you see what they aqre doing to us every day? Sad shape we are in.
This guy sounds like a part of the human body. Gale and students, bust his bubble and test him. You can believe this, there is no room in escambia county jails for all of northview students and parents. There is not enough room for the white collar thugs.
One for all and all for one is what i belive. Try him. Maybe your new school superendent will Help?
Wow. It just goes to show that nowadays what “politically correct” is coming to. I haven’t been out of NHS that long, but so many thing have already changed. I love to hear stories about my mom and dad’s school days at Ernest Ward. How much simpler life was before we started catering to the whims of every Tom, Susan, and Harry. Just WOW, this story has me floored, way to go NHS, at least we know that our parents raised us right!
we need to take back the schools we pay taxes so the schools belong to the people. this is what takes place when you take Jesus out of everything like prayer out of schools if that someone that don’t beleave in God that is there rights BUT BUT don’t stop the rest of the people from having the servis let them stay home .
Way to go NHS! I applaud the school for not just giving up. They are going to follow the new law, yet allow our children this tradition. IT is a sad day when a few can dictate a community in this way, but our kids and schools are showing that they will prevail in this matter.
The old Century High School is a church now.The gym or football field would provide plenty of room.Just a suggestion.